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EmoTracker
Discussion / suggestions
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Hamsda 2018-08-11 20:01
i'd keep it this way even if zooter was months old
20:02
because it is mainly for newer people
20:02
as you said, once people know shit, they don't really need the map tracker anymore
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EmoSaru 2018-08-11 20:02
my point is that the total amount of information players need to track approaches a similar place
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Natalie 2018-08-11 20:04
Shiiit, those maps are good and I used to know who that guy was. Shame they've got the icons on it.
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Spleebie 2018-08-11 22:40
or even location markers that when clicked popped open a custom layout that could include anything this sounds amazing
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EmoSaru 2018-08-11 22:40
Yeah
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Spleebie 2018-08-11 22:40
I could certainly see that helping this issue
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EmoSaru 2018-08-11 22:40
out of all the ideas today, I like that one the best
22:40
and it's also not that hard
22:40
I have to think a bit about how that popup should function, but it's a thing that makes sense to add IMO
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SaintVonJester 2018-08-12 14:11
Is there "hopefully" a Final Fantasy 1 Randomizer pack in the works? 😄
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jaysee 2018-08-12 14:47
There's not one yet? 🤔
14:47
As soon as I get some images, I can make one
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Natalie 2018-08-12 17:06
Gilgatex's SMxALttP combo tracker's map gives me something to think about: is there/will there be support to set a maximum size on a tracker map? Because to be frank, the SM map just looks ugly at scales that aren't an even 1x or 2x or 3x
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-08-12 19:02
Add package collection name to package name in package selection from Gear Menu in case names are similar?
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EmoSaru 2018-08-12 21:10
This, from #general-support, but I will look into adding something to help out here in the shorter term.
EmoSaru Today at 9:07 PM There's a pretty substantial package manager overhaul coming down the line, which is going to start making use of additional package metadata. That will also affect the gear menu package selector as well, although details are still TBD.
 (edited)
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-08-12 21:56
Ah ha. Thanks Emo!
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SaintVonJester 2018-08-13 11:06
If you need a trial monkey @jaysee , pick me
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jaysee 2018-08-13 11:08
Shall do. I'll just need to gather images this week
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jaysee 2018-08-18 21:12
@SaintVonJester are you looking for item tracker only, or do you need map tracker too?
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jaysee 2018-08-18 22:14
I've got a base working for key items only right now. need to find better images/make them myself based on the art I found
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rand(0) 2018-08-19 03:07
Would it be possible to show the number of available locations in the name of a map tab? e.g. Map1 (15) Map2 (5)
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SaintVonJester 2018-08-19 10:36
Maps would be cool @jaysee , but I don't use them myself. An item tracker would be AMAZING
10:36
They have one that you can download, but do like what @EmoSaru has created, therefore I want to keep using it lol
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jaysee 2018-08-19 10:56
can you send me that download please?
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SaintVonJester 2018-08-19 11:11
let me hunt it down, I couldn't get it to work properly myself
11:12
looks like it was taken down =/
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EmoSaru 2018-08-19 11:57
@rand(0) that’s an interesting request. The main issue is that tabs aren’t directly associated with maps - they can contain anything. That said, there may be a way to enable that via Lua scripting, so I’ll look into it.
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Traylon 2018-08-19 11:58
i have a good suggestion!!! instead of just pinning locations, let us add notes as to what's there or some indication of progress or important item if someone's playing rando (edited)
11:59
like if we see it early on and don't have the item to get to it, like bumber cave you need cape or LJ cave
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EmoSaru 2018-08-19 12:09
In my LTTP packs, all locations like that have the ability to be marked with the item that’s there. Those are the blue locations, and if you open them up there is a dotted square you can click on to “capture” the item.
12:09
A generic note-taking feature is not something I would add, at least not in that way.
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Traylon 2018-08-19 12:09
hmm ok
12:09
i didn't know that
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LostThePirate 2018-08-19 13:28
Actually, kind of a follow-up thought to that one, related to OoTR - the way that hints work on the TR build is that they can sometimes just point to an area instead of a specific check. It would be nifty if we could have something similar to the blue locations, but were not tied to specific checks but rather a zone. Would be great if it didn't disappear into the background if not currently accessible, too - sometimes I know I've found and noted a hint for something in an area (like if it's a hint that something is in Goron City, I might just tag it on Spinning Pot so it's associated with the area), but I can't recall what and if it isn't currently check-able there's no way to find it except for F11-ing it and looking at everything that isn't already greyed out.
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EmoSaru 2018-08-19 13:44
So, that's a tough one, because anything that can be tagged would need to be reflected in the UI somehow, and while some concepts work okay in that way, some don't, or at least not without kinda being in the way at other times.
13:45
That said, I understand what you're getting at, and I'll try to put some thought into it. If any of my OOTR @Pack Developer folks have thoughts here on good ways to make this work with decent UX, let's discuss it. 😃
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Spleebie 2018-08-19 13:47
When you do mark a hint it adds it to the pinned locations, so you should be able to see it there without F11
13:48
Wasn't there some discussion about making sub-maps or regions? This might be something you can tie into that (edited)
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LostThePirate 2018-08-19 13:53
I understand, Spleebie, but if something useful is buried, say, in Spirit Temple, that's a lot of real estate it's taking up to keep it pinned. At least for me, that makes keeping all of the usefully hinted checks pinned a less-than-ideal solution.
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Spleebie 2018-08-19 13:54
yeah, I'm not saying that solves the "general hint area" problem, that is something that would need support to do
13:54
but for the "can't find the thing I marked" problem
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LostThePirate 2018-08-19 13:54
Also, it's pretty easy to forget that a hint didn't point you to a specific place, that you just marked it at a specific place to help keep track of it.
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Spleebie 2018-08-19 13:55
yeah, it's true. I've had to just remember those in the past
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EmoSaru 2018-08-19 13:56
So with respect to "regions", that's a concept we could use. The trouble with regions is - how do we show regions on the UI? Sometimes regions in these games are more logical than they are geographical, and that's when the maps even make sense lol.
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Spleebie 2018-08-19 13:56
I was thinking more like one location that, when clicked, opens up a sub-layout. We could add some hint locations there (edited)
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LostThePirate 2018-08-19 13:57
That's why my mind went to a new category of check, something similar but not identical to the blue checks. One that isn't directly tied to logic in the same way.
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-08-19 13:58
The pack developer could add "items" that are images of words that represent the regions and just have them not appear in the main inventory spot but do show up in the capture window. Not the best, but it would do the thing with the current framework.
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EmoSaru 2018-08-19 13:58
@Spleebie if I did it like that, I would say that those "extra spots in the UI" are basically completely separate from the logic system
13:58
So that could happen, but it would definitely work differently than the existing ones
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Spleebie 2018-08-19 13:59
Seems good
14:00
I wouldn't expect them to be tied into the logic, since they would just be containers for lots of other locations
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EmoSaru 2018-08-19 14:00
kk
14:00
I'm not sure when the "nested map ui" stuff is going to happen
14:00
but I will try to at least sneak in your ability to put item capture boxes elsewhere on the UI for the next version
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Spleebie 2018-08-19 14:01
I would hope @Hamsda could weigh in too, since he's done a lot of other stuff to support TR's fork
👍 1
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-08-19 14:02
Could you also do a thing where you make a "map" that has a bgimg of a list of text labels and then "item locations" that are just like checkboxes at the end of each text label?
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EmoSaru 2018-08-19 14:03
what for?
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-08-19 14:05
I'm probably misunderstanding then. The hints tell you stuff about stuff. If the "Point A" list is uniform and the "Point B" list is uniform, make a "map" with a list of text labels that list out all the "Point A" references, then use the capture interface to select an "item" that is a text label for the "Point B" things.
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LostThePirate 2018-08-19 14:05
Thanks for taking this suggestion seriously and trying to problem solve on it. I (and I'm sure some other OoTR players) really appreciate it.
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Spleebie 2018-08-19 14:05
So, there's two types of hints
14:06
one of them is to a direct location, like "the reward for 50 skulltulas is the hookshot"
14:06
those already have the dotted line boxes to mark them
14:06
the hints that LostThePirate is asking about are ones that just say "the goddess of the sands (spirit temple) has the hookshot"
14:07
so it's not one particular check, you just know the general area
14:07
and they could be anywhere
14:07
I suppose making a list of every one of those regions might work
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-08-19 14:07
So, "Goddess of the Sands" is a "Point A" and the hookshot being the "Point B."
14:08
Have it on its own map as to not clutter and be confusing. The player would obviously need to recognize what the hint is actually saying.
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LostThePirate 2018-08-19 14:08
The problem, Mike, is that the hints are being tinkered with every few updates, so the current 'list' will be obsolete soon. Trying to think of something more generally applicable than a fixed list of locations - that's kind of the current problem, that hints don't have an associated specific check to tie the hint to.
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EmoSaru 2018-08-19 14:08
Yeah, as a general rule, this is a problem best solved with hierarchy.
14:08
The question is really how to present the hierarchy.
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Spleebie 2018-08-19 14:09
Come to think of it though, all of the general locations are currently dungeons, so it'd be easy to add in a capturable item to each dungeon since I already have a location for each one
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EmoSaru 2018-08-19 14:09
Right now, only sections can have them
14:09
you could have a dummy section
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-08-19 14:09
My goal is "How can you do the thing in the interim?" and then "Maybe developing in the interim method would lead to the 'correct' way to do it."
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EmoSaru 2018-08-19 14:10
but I will think about whether things could be better if there was actually a way to capture on the location level that woudl look nicer or be clearer
14:10
one questino
14:10
it seems like we need to support capturing multiple "general area" hints on a single location/region (edited)
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LostThePirate 2018-08-19 14:10
No, you can also get vague hints to Goron City or the lake and whatnot.
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-08-19 14:11
But there's a finite list.
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Spleebie 2018-08-19 14:13
Yeah, just every single region in the game
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LostThePirate 2018-08-19 14:13
Yeah, though it's possible the current finite list will be different in 2 weeks.
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EmoSaru 2018-08-19 14:13
^
14:13
that's the main thing that worries me
14:13
obviously we're in a GOOD spot, because we have an in-app update system
14:13
but
14:13
that's a lot of changes
14:14
it's also a bit weird because this is a branch of a thing
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LostThePirate 2018-08-19 14:15
I don't want poor Hamsda to have to do a pack update (and deal with requests for changes in pack support) every single time a TR update comes out that adds new hints to the pool.
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EmoSaru 2018-08-19 14:15
i mean, that might be the solution
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-08-19 14:15
I'm not saying that my idea is the best, perfect, stable, or extensible, but it would do the thing with the current framework. Once it's implemented that way, it may help come closer to an actual solution.
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EmoSaru 2018-08-19 14:16
I think if we were to do that thing, I would be recommending to spleeble to fork his package and do that in a TR branch package or something
14:16
usability and visual appeal have had much larger effects on package choice and satisfaction then you might think
14:16
like, I have messages and evidence
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Spleebie 2018-08-19 14:25
You mean like a pack variant? Kappa
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EmoSaru 2018-08-19 14:25
that would be a great way to trial this, it's just not out yet 😃
14:25
and might not make the next version, it's a bit up in the air
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Natalie 2018-08-19 18:19
🤔
18:23
We have visible-item support... hmm. I don't see it cropping up in any other game for quite a long time, but if it is implemented to support "vague" hints like OoTR has, it sounds like the sanest solution for the end user is supporting a set of "visible item" spots that is always [number of marked items + 1] slots long.
18:23
Just spitballing, y'know. Don't mind me.
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EmoSaru 2018-08-19 19:12
So, the version inside of locations supports things like auto-tracking the item for you when cleared, etc. This display would have to work rather differently, as the list would need to prune itself as you get things. That can’t always be done though, because of progressive items. (edited)
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Natalie 2018-08-19 19:19
How do hinted progressives work on that front, anyway? Just advancing on their own when the associated item location is checked off?
19:19
May well have to just do it that way... a bit clunky, sure, but. <_>
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haxua 2018-08-19 19:21
Huh... Some of the trackers don't include the Magic or Wallet Upgrades
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JRJathome 2018-08-19 19:21
Which tracker are you using, Shane?
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haxua 2018-08-19 19:22
Yours actually, "Items Only - Old Layout"
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JRJathome 2018-08-19 19:23
Thought so. My trackers have extra items that aren't included in the default layout. Wallets is one of them. I can't remember if I added magic. Let me double check.
19:24
You can add the extra items using an override.
19:25
Ok, I did add magic.
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haxua 2018-08-19 19:25
Ah ok. Not quite sure how to do that
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JRJathome 2018-08-19 19:26
I have a post at the bottom of #faq with instructions on how to get started.
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haxua 2018-08-19 19:26
Gotcha, thanks ^_^
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Sal the Dragon 2018-08-24 21:46
I've got one suggestion. What if we change the colored squares so that instead of clicking on them and having to move your cursor over the window to make the box stay, you just have to hover your cursor over the colored square to make it appear?
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EmoSaru 2018-08-24 21:48
It was that way during an early alpha version. It actually ends up being a lot more annoying than you'd think, especially in crowded map regions, and it doesn't work as nicely with pins
21:49
If you want to manipulate chests manually, instead of quick clearing, the recommended solution is double-clicking to pin
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Sal the Dragon 2018-08-24 22:20
I'll try that, thanks!
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TheClassicalGod 2018-08-24 22:22
Any chance of seeing the ChatHUD functionality being open to other platforms? I know the overwhelming majority of the community here streams on Twitch, but I, and a few others I know, use Mixer. I'd be willing to handle coding needed to make it happen if I knew how it was originally implemented. Probably not all that different, if at all, than what is currently there.
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EmoSaru 2018-08-24 22:33
So, I use a middleware library for interacting with Twitch, and the tracker is (quite deliberately) not open source. That said, if you know of a nice C# library for interacting with Mixer chat, let me know, and I'll look into integrating it in the future.
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TheClassicalGod 2018-08-24 22:34
I'll look into it and see what I can dig up.
22:41
Looks like natively node.js , but found a github repo of someone putting together a library for C#. Not 100% sure it'd have what you need, but it does mention channel and chat connectivity early on in the readme. - https://github.com/SaviorXTanren/mixer-client-csharp
SaviorXTanren/mixer-client-csharp
mixer-client-csharp - C# client library for Mixer streaming service
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EmoSaru 2018-08-24 22:41
thanks, I'll take a look!
22:41
no guarantees on timeline, but if it's reasonable to support both, I will gladly do so
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TheClassicalGod 2018-08-24 22:44
Fair enough. I know mixer users are probably a small margin of your userbase to begin with. Definitely the best built tracker I've come across, regardless, and that's the important part. heh I appreciate you looking into it at all.
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EmoSaru 2018-08-24 22:47
Definitely very small, but like I said, so long as it's a reasonable cost to benefit ratio, I'm perfectly happy to do it!
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Sal the Dragon 2018-08-26 23:45
when filling in the dotted white squares with hints, a few of the available choices like danger darts and love are missing. i would suggest adding those in if possible
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EmoSaru 2018-08-26 23:46
what pack are you talking about?
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Natalie 2018-08-26 23:46
Might bug the appropriate pack creator in #pack-support
23:46
referring to the Ocarina of Time trackers
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JRJathome 2018-08-26 23:46
Is there a point in knowing where to find extra hearts or arrows?
👆 2
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Natalie 2018-08-26 23:47
I know @Hamsda hasn't implemented every possibility yet
23:47
the more notable ones would be songs
23:47
i leave a hint blank if i know it's utter garbage
23:47
actually that's not quite right. what did i mark garbage hints with?
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JRJathome 2018-08-26 23:47
If a location doesn't have a required item, you should be able to right-click the location to clear it off the map.
👆 2
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Natalie 2018-08-26 23:48
oh! songs did get put in
23:48
don't mind me
23:48
basically you can mark garbage hints with any item you already have the maximum count of, my personal suggestion
23:49
so a song you already have, a magic bean, or you can set Ocarina to its maximum level and use that
23:50
though marking the location as "already taken" is a decent solution as well
23:50
definitely preferable if you don't care at all about the contents
23:51
(perhaps double defense or other health upgrades would be a nice hint option)
23:51
🤷
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Sal the Dragon 2018-08-27 12:11
Twas for the Hamsda package indeed ^^
12:15
I was also thinking that some locations with hints have other items there too, and if I find the hint before the item then I wouldn't want to right click it. In that situation, I might forget what the hint was if I don't mark it, but then again my memory is complete crap XD It's probably just me
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Natalie 2018-08-27 12:17
Just go ahead and mark that particular hinted location as obtained
12:17
though it'd be nice for health upgrades to be a hintable option
12:18
real suggestion: is there support for a hintable non-progression object that might still be nice to grab? if not, then... well... yeah.
12:18
failing that i guess we could start tracking heart containers and double defense 🤷
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EmoSaru 2018-08-27 12:49
That's up to the pack devs
12:50
They can include literally whatever items they want on the item capture UI
12:50
and they don't have to be show on the main items tracker
12:50
it's a completely separate layout, if they want it to be
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Natalie 2018-08-27 12:55
neat.
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LostThePirate 2018-08-27 16:46
It would be very nifty if locations with multiple checks at them that have both an available check and a hintable check showed up as something other than orange. (Such as Anju as adult on OoT.)
16:48
That's the same coloration as locations that have inaccessible checks and sequence break checks, and often makes it look like you can't make progress at a spot if you don't know the tricksy ways to access places.
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EmoSaru 2018-08-27 17:00
So, orange NEVER means no progress
17:00
It always means "partial access"
17:00
Which in this case is 100% true
17:00
You don't have access to all the items
17:00
So while I understand the issue, it's a tricky one to address in any way that's materially better than what exists right now
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Darkwolf 2018-08-29 16:13
Hello, I have a little suggestion or maybe it's already in but I didnt' see it
16:14
How can I save my progress on tracker if I want to do my run in more than one part ? I can save on game but if I quit and restart tracker , all is lost
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-08-29 16:15
#faq
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JRJathome 2018-08-29 16:15
Already being worked on for the next release. No release date has been given yet though.
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-08-29 16:16
“An update on Save/Load”
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Darkwolf 2018-08-29 16:16
Arg, I see "These are both known requests, and while I won't say NEVER, they are beyond the bottom of the priority list."
16:16
ok and An Update on Save/Load
16:16
Thanks
16:17
Sorry for disturbing you
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JRJathome 2018-08-29 16:18
Not at all. 👍
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-08-29 16:18
No disturbance. Just slow to type on my iPhone.
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Binkdeadpool 2018-09-06 21:36
Are you possibly going to add a 1/4 Magic on the tracker? I don't know if its something that could be done but I was playing and got a 1/4 Magic and couldn't tag it. Not a big thing. But I figured you'd want to know.
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JRJathome 2018-09-06 21:39
1/4 magic is only seen in easy mode, so most people aren't going to ever use that icon. It might affect map tracker logic, but it would be a rare occurrence.
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-09-06 21:46
I made my 1/4 Magic just be a progressive upgrade from 1/2.
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fylion 2018-09-06 21:48
1/4 Magic could technically apply to Trinexx logic in Enemizer or Entrance Shuffle, but as you said, only in easy mode.
21:49
very edge case
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-09-06 21:52
Add Swordless and it becomes less-edgy. Because, you know, no sword. >.>
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EmoSaru 2018-09-07 02:26
Still never logically required in swordless
02:26
And only present in easy
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Bonzaibier 2018-09-09 12:09
how about a 1 leftclick option to open the spot for pinned locations? and when i click another location it closed the old and opens the new one? (friend just had the idea)
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Natalie 2018-09-09 12:31
That makes me think of a different idea, a visual cue on pinned map locations? Perhaps change the black border color?
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EmoSaru 2018-09-09 12:44
The first one will not happen, for a few different reasons. That said, with a tracker layout customization you can actually limit the number of pinned locations shown to "1", which will kind a do that, as it will show the most recently pinned location. If you double click an already pinned location, it sorts to the front, always.
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Bonzaibier 2018-09-09 12:45
yea but i dont want to close the pinned everytime
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EmoSaru 2018-09-09 12:45
Huh? You don't have to close anything
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Bonzaibier 2018-09-09 12:46
or do i missunderstand?
12:46
ah. so if i set it to 1... it will only show the last double click?
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EmoSaru 2018-09-09 12:46
Correct.
12:47
That's possible today, but, with some stuff coming in the next update, I would advise people not to customize the tracker layout (broadcast is fine) unless they really need to.
12:47
Some pack authors will probably be adjusting their pack structures, which will likely cause you to need to redo your customizations.
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Bonzaibier 2018-09-09 12:48
ok thxs ^^
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kingofspaed 2018-09-11 13:40
I am not sure this feature is in the Oot trackers, but I think it would be a good idea that you could set the GoldSkulltula tracker in intervals of 1 or 10. Especially when you are not using the Map trackers to have a better idea of which GS check you have access to. (edited)
13:42
Or for people who don't change the GS tracker after each one 😃
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JRJathome 2018-09-11 13:43
I actually had that request already and added a hidden item code that increments by 10. Just change the code in your override to skulltulas instead of skulltula.
13:43
This is just for my item trackers.
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kingofspaed 2018-09-11 13:44
Alright, i'll check into it
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Fouton (PugHUD) 2018-09-12 04:56
I was thinking on this a while ago and my thought was “holding shift while you click to change click interactions”
04:57
Of course having that type of requirement to a tracker could limit some keybinds when combining the tracker with the emulator
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Zurai 2018-09-12 05:00
maybe middle mouse?
05:00
so mouse-wheel button I mean
05:00
not sure if thats used for something
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Ninban 2018-09-12 05:12
I'd vastly prefer middle mouse button to any kind of shift holding. I think most users track with one hand still on the controller
👆 2
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Fouton (PugHUD) 2018-09-12 06:37
I could see that being good for people who have good mice. And the sacrifice becomes towards people who have simple shitty mice. They can still use the tracker without any issue, just missing a ease of use feature, so that seems fine
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Natalie 2018-09-12 06:44
Counter: no one is going to change the function of an element mid-game
06:46
would prefer limiting that sort of thing to a tracker config panel anyway, sort of an easy-mode variant on overrides for specifically supported changes
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Fouton (PugHUD) 2018-09-12 06:52
eh I disagree
06:52
I see people tracking skulltulas, or sm ammo with clicks and going 1 by 1 is pretty slow
06:53
at the same time, its just not really a big issue
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Natalie 2018-09-12 06:54
keyword mid-game
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SauceRelic 2018-09-12 06:54
The ammo in my SM pack all increments however much each expansion gives you, really the only use i can think of is skulls
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Natalie 2018-09-12 06:54
tracking skulltulas accurately by number saves a fragment of time over pausing to check
06:55
but if you have a good grasp on skull count you can set it to increment by 10 if you really want
06:56
point here to be made is this is something to put in a pack configuration pane, not an option that's going to be turned on on the fly in the middle of a game
06:57
also, no SM tracker out there counts ammo one by one
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Fouton (PugHUD) 2018-09-12 06:58
its not that youd turn it on midgame, its that you have the option to left click for one, mid click for 10
06:58
ammo trackers count by 5s
06:58
but if you need to put 65 in right now
06:58
youre gonna do 13 clicks
06:58
instead of middle 3 left
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Natalie 2018-09-12 06:58
...and why aren't you tracking them as you get them?
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Fouton (PugHUD) 2018-09-12 06:59
Because people dont often do that
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Natalie 2018-09-12 06:59
Even if it's a few at a time when you can breathe
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Fouton (PugHUD) 2018-09-12 06:59
People update them when they choose, and when they choose they update it accurately
07:00
As a developer of one of the packs, and as someone who watches these runners play these games often, I can tell you its a useful option. Whether or not Emo wants to spend the time to put in such a minor feature is a different story, but the desire to have such an option exists. Obviously there are different ways it can be handled, as there always is in life
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Ninban 2018-09-12 07:02
My own preference (with skulls in mind) would be left click +1 and middle click being an increment to the next 10s. For example if I have 7 skulls and I middle click I have 10 skulls shown, because that's a milestone for this collectible
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Battle00333 2018-09-12 07:02
i see this when ppl run combo randomizer, they dont constantly update ammo, they usually update all their finds at once
07:02
once theyre done with a segment or area
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SauceRelic 2018-09-12 07:03
Never actually got around to playing the combo randomizer, does it not have item jingles?
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Battle00333 2018-09-12 07:03
llttp has its own jingle, and SM has its own jingle
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Natalie 2018-09-12 07:04
LttP has its own fanfare that's unchanged
07:04
SM gets the shortest fanfare
07:04
and uses it for all items
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SauceRelic 2018-09-12 07:05
Yeah if SM has shorter fanfare i could see it
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Battle00333 2018-09-12 07:05
but what ive seen from this one guy who runs combo, is that, when hes running around in lttp, he doesnt update ammo until he goes back into SM usually
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SauceRelic 2018-09-12 07:05
Honestly i find it easy enough to do in door transitions
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Natalie 2018-09-12 07:05
Until boots there's no real time loss to tracking on the go in LttP
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Battle00333 2018-09-12 07:06
only thing i find annoying is how it prevents controller movement wheneever i add to the tracker >.<
07:06
so i have to click on the emu again
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Natalie 2018-09-12 07:06
Enable background input
07:06
Probrem sorved
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Battle00333 2018-09-12 07:06
that would do it
07:07
as an alternative to that, i just paused the emu instead (edited)
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Natalie 2018-09-12 07:08
If you have a left trigger you could probably bind it to the run button and leave right face unbound
07:09
which would mitigate time loss but requires relearning your defined controls
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Battle00333 2018-09-12 07:09
i just have the button config on its default inputs
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Natalie 2018-09-12 07:09
but at this point we're drifting well out of #suggestions material
07:11
tl;dr: personal opinion on this front is "change function of trackables in a config panel, keep the single step increments and do a better job of finding time to track"
07:12
adding mouse wheel scroll to adjusting the number would speed it up though
07:13
would/could
07:14
in the end it's really a function that benefits casuals and streamers/LPers, not runners
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Fouton (PugHUD) 2018-09-12 07:35
disagre
07:35
again
07:36
most runners dont want to have to spend more time fiddling with a hud mid game, or having to minmax their time hudding, most dont even want to use a hud but do so for their viewers
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EmoSaru 2018-09-12 10:38
RE: the click increment stuff
10:39
I'm hesitant to use middle mouse BUTTON for anything resembling a click, because they're often more difficult clicks on stiffer buttons, so they can be hard to repeat
10:39
however
10:39
what if we did a secondary increment amount on mouse wheel?
10:40
that would allow you to eg do a bulk adjustment with mouse wheel then click to fine tune
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jcaraker 2018-09-12 10:40
That sounds neat
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Ninban 2018-09-12 11:33
I'd like that
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SauceRelic 2018-09-12 11:38
Suggestion: With the wind waker randomizer and testrunner's version of Oot having so many options, we should have a dedicated "pack options" menu which could toggle one or more codes to keep these settings out of the main layout
11:39
I also would have use for this with my SM pack and the metroid prime pack I'm working on since they have multiple levels of difficulty
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EmoSaru 2018-09-12 11:45
So, we discussed that at one point in the developer chat, and decided to live with the current style of options for a while. The more I think about it, the more I think that doing it the way we are now is the correct thing’ish, insofar as I think our existing layout system is the right way to define that stuff. That said, I am looking at ways to allow you to use those layouts in ways that are less intrusive.
11:46
Anything more standard that I built would likely have substantially less theming capability, and would be a standard grouped settings layout, not unlike the settings menus of a lot of apps.
👍 2
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KevinCathcart 2018-09-12 23:40
So perhaps like collapsible sublayouts? Or additional pack defined layouts that live in separate windows, which can be triggered to appear from the main layout? Either of those could probably help with the options only needed at start of a run, and both could be potentially useful in other scenarios.
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EmoSaru 2018-09-13 00:23
the latter is what I'm thinking
00:24
another option is the ability to add a layout to a button on the bottom bar of the app
00:24
aka the one that shows the Twitch icon if you've enabled twitch integration
00:29
it would use a similar popover to the item capture UI
00:29
and host whatever layout you want
00:30
or maybe do the same thing on the right hand side of the header on a group control
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-09-13 11:30
Pack-specific readmes, possibly opened by an icon near the Twitch Chat controls.
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Samura1man 2018-09-16 05:18
Not a big request, but for TWW tracker I'd like to see triforce pieces being connected like it is in game when you've got all 8 pieces, when all pieces are clicked it still has cracks and it'd look nice with full triforce, is it possible to implement? (edited)
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LostThePirate 2018-09-16 05:22
That would be something to ask the specific pack developer.
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Samura1man 2018-09-16 05:23
is he in this discord?
05:24
I'm in TWW rando discord, I can ask there too
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EmoSaru 2018-09-16 11:29
There are features I would need to add in order for that to be possible while retaining the ability to click specific triforce pieces so it matches in-game.
11:30
If it was just “click to add generic triforce piece” like another tracker I know, it would be no problem, but I do think being able to have it match your inventory screen is kinda nice.
11:30
Those features are coming, btw, I just can’t say when because there are other bigger things that come first.
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JRJathome 2018-09-16 11:38
Yeah. What Samura wants is technically possible, but only if the pack author changes it to a progressive item. And doing that means the icon wouldn't match your inventory screen in-game.
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Fouton (PugHUD) 2018-09-16 11:55
Could make it with the canvas feature pretty easily though
11:57
Unless Im completely misunderstanding something
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EmoSaru 2018-09-16 12:01
You’re misunderstanding something
12:01
It’s built with a canvas right now
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Natalie 2018-09-16 12:01
The intent is to change the eight separate pieces into a single linked Triforce when all eight are collected
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Fouton (PugHUD) 2018-09-16 12:01
oh so like, seperate until done and then they all link
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EmoSaru 2018-09-16 12:01
Right
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Fouton (PugHUD) 2018-09-16 12:02
I think that'd still be possible with some cheatycheats
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Natalie 2018-09-16 12:02
It's a beautification request that fits most well in a streaming setting
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Fouton (PugHUD) 2018-09-16 12:02
just slipping in a secretive 9th clickable or so that could fill in the blanks
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EmoSaru 2018-09-16 12:03
I mean, it would have to be on top
12:03
Due to the way the game art is done
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Fouton (PugHUD) 2018-09-16 12:03
Ah shucks
12:03
a picture on the OBS overlay would the cheatycheat method then
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EmoSaru 2018-09-16 12:04
It’s possible with an extra click, where you use a separate item to control the “whole triforce”
12:04
But that’s a little bit annoying too
12:05
Anyway, I’m supposed to be on break anyway
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JRJathome 2018-09-16 12:06
Mute this server, Emo. Seriously. 😛
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Darkened5ky 2018-09-17 10:22
I'm in this discord too samura1man 😛
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LostThePirate 2018-09-18 13:19
I've brought this up before, but I'm gonna bring it up again because it really hosed me in a race yesterday... (I'd really appreciate it if folks don't pull the "Just learn your checks, don't rely on the tracker" card because I have the short term memory of a goldfish, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't get to enjoy randomizers.) In a location with multiple checks at it, if there is something you can't do and something you can, that shows up as Orange on the tracker. If there is something you can sequence break and something you can't do, it also shows up as Orange on the tracker. I know the stance is, "If it's Orange, there is something there that you can do," and while that's true in ALttPR, it is not the case for OoTR. To demonstrate the point, here is what the Frogs location looks like if you don't have access to that location but have the Stone of Agony (hints enabled): http://prntscr.com/kvyeid Here is what the same spot looks like when you do have access to the location and have the Stone: http://prntscr.com/kvyexl And finally, here is what it looks like if you have access to the location, the Stone, and Song of Storms to do the first check at that location: http://prntscr.com/kvyfdm My main point is, without digging into the location, in all of those circumstances it just appears on the Map as an Orange dot. (edited)
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13:22
In this situation, if you never come across a Hint about what is at the Frogs Minigame, it will always appear Orange until you have all 6 non-warp songs or clear the Frogs in the Rain check. The problem is, it's difficult to realize you have the Frogs in the Rain check available to you because it always looks the same on the minimap.
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Hamsda 2018-09-18 13:23
Yeah I think I made that suggestion in passing as well, if only blue + red sections are in a location, the location should preferrably show as blue, like it does with just blue points
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EmoSaru 2018-09-18 13:33
So, this is a way more contentious issue than you might think, largely because 1) it’s complicated and 2) the right answer is, IMO, different per game.
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Hamsda 2018-09-18 13:34
2) would mean we need an option for it
13:34
I can't judge 1) of course
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EmoSaru 2018-09-18 13:35
Any solution I come up with here is likely to involve scripting, and allowing lua to provide a function for resolving multiple accessibility levels into a single one for display.
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Hamsda 2018-09-18 13:36
roughly how is it handled right now? single section -> location accessibility = section accessibility and for multiple sections -> if differing = always orange?
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EmoSaru 2018-09-18 13:37
It’s a bit more complicated than that. I don’t want to answer more specifically here because I’m not looking at the code right now and I don’t want to misspeak.
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Hamsda 2018-09-18 13:37
yeah no worries
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Natalie 2018-09-18 13:38
I'd have to say that if there is no item that can possibly be obtained there, but a mix of red/blue item checks are contained in the location, I would prefer "capturable" over "mixed accessibility"
13:38
and reserve orange for "you can actually make a little progress over here"
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Hamsda 2018-09-18 13:38
it's just something that's been bugging me from the start with my pack and the only solution would be to make every single hintable section a single location (which isn't really nice either, because many of them are in dungeons)
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EmoSaru 2018-09-18 13:39
Yeah, I feel the pain.
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LostThePirate 2018-09-18 13:40
I not saying "This must be changed!" or anything. I just have brought it up here before, but I don't think I had such a clear example of why it's problematic for OoTR players before, so I wanted to bring it up again, now that I had a good example available to show the issue with.
13:41
Especially since I spent an extra 4 hours without a Bow because I didn't register that that check was available to me...
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EmoSaru 2018-09-18 13:42
The least contentious thing here is the idea that a location with one inspectable section and no obtainable items should potentially be inspectable on the map, I’ll think about this more, and decide whether or not it’s worth solving specifically or deferring to a larger solution.
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Hamsda 2018-09-18 13:43
yeah thats basically what it boils down to for zooter
13:43
i don't know how other games would like inspect/capture handled
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Natalie 2018-09-18 13:45
Maybe the biggest issue is when you have a fully accessible out-of-logic location that has a capturable item (Gerudo Training Grounds with the Underwater chest) - how do you display that? Yellow, because the hinted location is accessible out of logic? Blue, because none of it is in logic but there's a hinted location? Orange, because mixture of states?
13:46
Just too much thinking to be had for a quick solution.
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LostThePirate 2018-09-18 13:50
That's my goal, here - not necessarily change, but the consideration of if a change is warranted, based on how Inspectable locations work differently for OoTR players.
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EmoSaru 2018-09-18 13:51
Yeah
13:51
I definitely think that we need to do SOMETHING for ZOOTR players here
13:52
I just need to think more about what
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Natalie 2018-09-18 13:54
About the only other changes you could make is the shape of an item check or the border color. And I already suggested changing the border color for pinned locations. 🤷
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EmoSaru 2018-09-18 13:58
One thing that's not always clear to people is that I try really hard - or at least as much as I can, given that I don't control the design of most packs - to maintain readability and usability for high-tier racers within the tracker.
13:59
There are many cases where I've rejected "simple" solutions on that basis, because despite being "clear" they are not clear without a brain-time penalty that negates their value.
14:00
To be fair, this has thus far been primarily focused on LTTPR. Partly because I'm more familiar with it at that level, but mostly because it's the most mature/optimized competitive format out there.
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DukeFireBird 2018-09-18 21:23
unsure if this was submitted yet, but having the color of the pendants/crystal appear like the keysanity layout would be awesome for the regular layout
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EmoSaru 2018-09-18 21:27
it's on my todo list
21:28
but I'm on break, and it'll get mixed in with other bigger things
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DukeFireBird 2018-09-18 21:29
👍
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JRJathome 2018-09-18 21:31
In the meantime, I made some override images a while ago that should still work with Emo's pack.
red_crystals.zip
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21:31
Although, I never made images for green pendant...
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LostThePirate 2018-09-18 23:28
I know you work your backside off for us, EmoSaru, and I really appreciate the results. I also recognize that not everyone who plays ALttPR also plays OoTR, and vice versa. I appreciate that you're putting thought into this.
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JARP 2018-09-19 10:47
@Hamsda so i've used both trackers for ZOOTR and so far seems like Hamsda tracker is more up to date with the new rando flags, but the one thing i like about the darkened and spleebie's track is that it merges all the chests/items of a area in one square, while hamsda's has a separate square for each individual item. so is there a option for that or is it the way it is? (edited)
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EmoSaru 2018-09-19 10:49
I recommend tagging the pack authors if you have feedback for particular packs
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Blu Poole 2018-09-19 12:41
@Darkened5ky how hard would it be to add a heart piece and heart container tracker to The OoTR map tracker? (edited)
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JRJathome 2018-09-19 12:44
What would the purpose be? Genuinely curious.
12:45
I know some Zelda 3 trackers have it.
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Blu Poole 2018-09-19 12:45
Just to keep track of them
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Natalie 2018-09-19 12:45
Aesthetic purpose for streamers, I suspect
12:46
They have no function other than as a safety net and to extend tunic timers
12:46
And nothing in OoTR as yet demands a specific amount of health to hellrun or diverun
12:47
So the only real use and purpose would be for use on a less than competitive stream
12:49
The only other sensible use for tracking these items would be in a 100% all unique items run
12:49
at which point if you know you have everything unique, you can bail because it's all rupees and ammo from here on out
👍 1
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Blu Poole 2018-09-19 12:50
@Natalie yeah that's it
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EmoSaru 2018-09-19 12:50
Nobody really uses heart container counters in lttp
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JRJathome 2018-09-19 12:50
See, my personal thinking is things that are constantly on the game screen don't need to be on a tracker. Or at least the broadcast window, which is used for streaming. That's why my Zelda 3 overrides don't include shield, tunic or half-magic. There is a case for having that info available on the main tracker interface though.
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Merc249 2018-09-19 12:50
Last time I saw HC and HP on a Z3R tracker, they were just set to "6" and 9" because we're all immature. (edited)
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EmoSaru 2018-09-19 12:51
And the only reason for the piece tracker ever has been to decide whether to pick up a free standing piece for another container
12:51
And also, nobody uses them
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Fouton (PugHUD) 2018-09-19 12:54
They fill space so that the tracker doesnt look strangely empty, basically
☝ 1
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Natalie 2018-09-19 12:54
When OoTR Fewer Tunic Requirements begins accounting for health to hellrun Fire Temple or diverun Water Temple, then you can start expecting health capacity to show up in the tracker.
12:56
Until then, the tracker item grid is pretty snugly packed, so you should consider using an override if you want to implement heart piece and container tracking.
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Hamsda 2018-09-19 17:10
@JARP thats how I had it in the very beginning, but with oots very layered item requirements that meant that there basically was an orange dot almost everywhere all the time. I felt this made it rather hard to use, because you had to constantly check every dot to see how many checks you could actually get done at a location. I know having them split into single locations makes it a bit harder to use, but overall I felt it was much better.
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JARP 2018-09-19 17:11
ah i understand
17:11
how hard it would be to have it as a option?
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Hamsda 2018-09-19 17:12
practically impossible as I would have to double the entire structure
17:12
if you really want to use it, I'd honestly recommend not using my pack
17:13
I doubt that darkened or spleebies pack is not up2date
17:13
so if the style of how stuff is being displayed is bothering you, and their pack has it right, just use theirs
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JARP 2018-09-19 17:14
when i said it wasn't up2date i meant it didn't have (or i couldn't find) a option to toggle tokensanity, shopsanity and so on. i just didn't knew how to word it
17:14
anyways, thanks for your response
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Hamsda 2018-09-19 17:16
oh yeah no idea in how far all the TR fork options are supported in their pack
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WillardJBradley 2018-09-19 17:33
heart counters are useful for Bingo, Okay.
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EmoSaru 2018-09-19 17:57
Hush, you
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Hamsda 2018-09-19 17:58
but you see them on screen NotLikeThis
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JRJathome 2018-09-19 18:01
Don't know about Zootr, but Zelda 3 bingo sometimes has a goal of 'X heart pieces' instead of 'X max health', so I understand needing a counter for that.
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Hamsda 2018-09-19 18:04
yeah oot has tons of "all hps from X", but your total hp count doesn't really help with that and its easy to keep track of in most cases
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dotzo 2018-09-19 18:59
we have total heart goals rather than Hp goals. for zootr
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Raikaru 2018-09-19 19:05
oh, i guess i should chime in here. those already exist in my pack. just need to activate them with their codes
19:05
i should maybe fix the images so they look better
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Hamsda 2018-09-19 19:12
I think most of us have them, just don't see the point in displaying them by default 😃
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Espy the Espeon 2018-09-19 20:42
What about having the name of an item display by hovering over it in the interface, would that be feasible?
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Hamsda 2018-09-19 20:44
emo has answered that before: it would be a feature that would only be beneficial for a very short time for new users and be rather annoying for experienced users experienced probably meaning after just very few runs
20:45
(paraphrasing here, you can probably search for her actual response)
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Espy the Espeon 2018-09-19 20:45
true, then what about having the feature be toggleable, so that new users can get used to the items placement and name then toggled off for experienced users (edited)
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Hamsda 2018-09-19 20:47
thats something she's gotta evaluate, in how far she wants to allocate her limited dev time
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Espy the Espeon 2018-09-19 20:47
fair enough
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Hamsda 2018-09-19 20:47
so you gotta wait for a response from her 😃
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Natalie 2018-09-19 21:17
we've been over the tooltips discussion before
21:17
i believe the consensus was "they get in the way"
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Darkened5ky 2018-09-19 21:26
@Blu Poole I'll talk to Spleebie about it
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Blu Poole 2018-09-19 21:28
Thank you, no harm done if its a no
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Hamsda 2018-09-22 11:03
how about !hud consumable X to set a consumable directly to a certain number
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EmoSaru 2018-09-22 11:21
we can do that, but it conflicts slightly with the custom increment request, which means that increments would have to be like !hud consumable +x
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Hamsda 2018-09-22 11:21
oh yeah, makes sense
11:22
I don't think its that common of an application, just had the case come up in chris chat
11:22
might be worth more for SM packs maybe
pieStreamBIGER 1
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-09-22 11:30
"Oh crap, I've not been paying attention to my total ammo counts. Let's hit a missile refill really fast, ok, I've got <this many> missiles, let's just tank that up on the tracker really quick." Repeat for supers, powers, etanks and rtanks. Repeat for heart containers/pieces. Repeat for Skulltula tokens.
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Fouton (PugHUD) 2018-09-23 07:00
Yeah for chathud I think incremental is fine, as people will either be updating it correctly, or able to catch it up easily that way
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qwertymodo 2018-09-23 09:01
Just as a general UI best-practices suggestion, any functionality available from a hotkey should also be available from a menu in some form, like the "Show all locations" F11 keybinding. And the options in the menu that are also bound to a hotkey should include the hotkey in the menu text e.g. Application>Broadcast View (F2)
09:02
Here's a pretty typical example, with the keybindings right-justified in the text field
Image attachment
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-09-23 09:03
Especially since “Hit F11” is the solution to many a #faq that isn’t read.
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qwertymodo 2018-09-23 09:03
Exactly. It's kind of annoying having to read the FAQ to discover core functionality that you should be able to find for yourself by poking around in the UI, just my $0.02
09:04
And you'd save yourself the headache of having to repeatedly point people to the FAQ 😉
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-09-23 09:05
The faq channel is nice and a great way to give information, but there’s a lot there and it’s a little unwieldy. :\
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qwertymodo 2018-09-23 09:06
There's a reason why the best practices "rule" about putting your functionality in a visible menu exists. Falls into the category of self-documenting design.
09:06
But we programmers hate documentation, don't we...
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-09-23 09:08
Docs are being written.
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qwertymodo 2018-09-23 09:08
that last part was mostly just a lighthearted joke
09:09
the rando community in general is pretty amazing about help docs and resources
09:10
just thought I'd drop by with the UI suggestion
09:10
I knew the functionality existed and still had to look it up in the FAQ
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EmoSaru 2018-09-23 11:17
In my experience, it doesn’t matter how many places I advertise the functionality, in-app or otherwise.
11:18
There’s an entirely standard “refresh” button in the title bar that is bound to the universal standard refresh key for browsers - the most ubiquitous app on earth - and people still get confused as to whether they have to close the app and restart it.
11:18
That said, I’ll make sure there are menu options for those in the next update, as it’s a fine suggestion.
11:19
Also - never use GIMP as an example for anything to do with good UI design, or I’ll be laughing too hard to read the suggestion.
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Natalie 2018-09-23 11:19
Your user base is becoming increasingly populated by YouTube users. In all honesty, if it's not spelled out for them by their favorite Let's Players, they'll never figure it out.
11:20
🤷
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EmoSaru 2018-09-23 11:21
I mean, that’s probably a little more targeted than something I’m willing to say. And my statement isn’t exclusive to the tracker users - we deal with it at my (AAA games) day job constantly.
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Natalie 2018-09-23 11:22
Reading is a lost art.
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-09-23 14:43
Somehow translate over the pack flags (maps, chathud, etc) to the Installed Packages menu?
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EmoSaru 2018-09-23 16:49
Could happen, although that menu is already dense AF, so I'm a little hesitant to add MORE info to it
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-28 14:31
Is the entrance Tracker for Non-Insanity, or Insanity included?
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Natalie 2018-09-28 15:01
First: this is #suggestions, not a support/questions channel
15:03
Second: there does not appear to be an entrance rando tracker in the package list.
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JRJathome 2018-09-28 15:03
No, but Emo's working on one, so I'd say the suggestion is valid.
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Natalie 2018-09-28 15:04
I'd be willing to bet money that there's a specific place for people to discuss the entrance tracker closed beta.
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EmoSaru 2018-09-28 15:49
There will be once it starts, but will be restricted to active participants.
15:50
That said, as folks have pointed out, there is not currently entrance support. It's in the works.
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EmoSaru 2018-09-28 16:00
Also, the initial version will be focusing on non-insanity. Asymmetric entrances add a tremendous amount of complexity, and as small as the hardcore entrance community is, the insanity entrance folks are an even smaller group.
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-28 23:10
I mean, my primary randomizer is "IEKAD" or "Insanity Entrance Keysanity All Dungeons"
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EmoSaru 2018-09-28 23:11
You are a cosmic anomaly though.
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JRJathome 2018-09-28 23:11
I think the main problem is the decoupled entrances makes the tracker a logistical nightmare.
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EmoSaru 2018-09-28 23:12
It's primarily a UI problem
23:12
And a freaking weird one
23:12
Symmetric entrances/exits are complex, but sensible
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Natalie 2018-09-28 23:14
I'm not sure I want to see the average pile of rules for accessing entrances
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EmoSaru 2018-09-28 23:18
The rules are completely fine
23:18
It's the same rules as applies to the locations now
23:19
The additional complexity for the tracker is a combination of UI/UX stuff, plus handling internal section connectivity within locations and offering a pathfinding model
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 22:49
EmoSaruYesterday at 1:11 AM
You are a cosmic anomaly though.
What does this mean?
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Espeon 2018-09-29 22:49
Your choice of gameplay is highly atypical
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 22:50
It is becasue of masochistic tendencies in gaming where I have control?
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Espeon 2018-09-29 22:51
the fact that you play insanity shuffle keysan
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 22:51
What is so weird about that?
22:52
(Also, I play that with All Dungeons attached to it)
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JRJathome 2018-09-29 22:53
I'd like to mention that Emo said she's initially working on non-insanity. She never said she'd never do insanity shuffle. Let's take care of the easier stuff first before focusing on the harder difficulties.
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 22:53
Fair enough.
22:53
I feel sorry for the person who makes the tracker that only I would even be a target for.
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JRJathome 2018-09-29 22:54
I wouldn't be surprised if it gets made eventually. We're just trying to get the basic functionality out of the way first. 😃
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 22:54
Yeah, but now that it is on my mind...
22:55
How does an Entrance Tracker work actually?
22:55
I have heard theories of changing the shapes of the entrances.
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JRJathome 2018-09-29 22:56
I'm not exactly sure what Emo has in mind. I know that what she wants to do is preserve logic despite the shuffle, which is something no other entrance rando tracker does.
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 22:56
That will be super tricky.
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JRJathome 2018-09-29 22:56
Yeah. It means making separate markers for every single passthrough cave.
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 22:56
That means the green/yellow/orange/red/blue squares?
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JRJathome 2018-09-29 22:57
Yeah
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 22:57
The tracker I use now uses 8 colors to Emo's 4 makes it harder to use..
22:58
...The fact that inacessible ones do not show up at all or 100% cleared ones do not show up makes it way harder to undo something.
22:58
(Example is thinking you full cleared all 27 chests in Ganon's Tower, but forgot one.)
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JRJathome 2018-09-29 22:59
Pressing F11 will show all locations, so you can make corrections that way.
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 22:59
Ganon's Tower may be the worst Example, but.
22:59
That is nice to know...
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JRJathome 2018-09-29 23:00
I'm also talking situations where you go through a passthrough cave, mark both ends, and the logic then shows you which locations are now available on the other side of the cave. That's some tricky logic to piece together.
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 23:01
That is true.
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JRJathome 2018-09-29 23:01
Especially for spots like Desert, TR and Paradox Cave.
23:01
And Hyrule Castle
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 23:01
Skull Woods
23:01
Does not Skull Woods have 8 entrances?
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JRJathome 2018-09-29 23:02
I believe Skull Woods entrances are only shuffled amongst each other except for the back one. Not sure if that's still true for insanity.
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 23:02
Since when?
23:03
Then again, I only play Insanity, so I have no room to talk.
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Espeon 2018-09-29 23:03
for drop entrances, that is true
23:03
the boss entrance is normally shuffled
23:03
but the drops, and any entrances connected to the drops, are always in SW
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 23:03
Skull Woods drops have sent me to random caves in the light world.
23:04
At what level if Insanity does Skull Woods logicly decouple itself?
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JRJathome 2018-09-29 23:04
Must be different in Insanity then.
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 23:04
I never played Crossed, Simple, Full, or what else there is.
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JRJathome 2018-09-29 23:05
I've played Crossed, and all Skull Woods drops/entrances except the boss entrance were still in Skull Woods.
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Espeon 2018-09-29 23:05
insanity does decouple drops and entrances
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 23:05
That does not seem so random sadly.
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Espeon 2018-09-29 23:05
the reason that drops are not normally uncoupled is that you need to be able to enter and exit an entrance, and drops are basically an alternate entrance to the same place
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 23:06
Mad-Bat?
23:06
Gannon?
23:06
How are those handeled then?
23:06
(Even Lumberjack cave)
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JRJathome 2018-09-29 23:06
Yeah. For example, if you find the Ganon cave in lumberjack, his dropdown will be the tree.
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Espeon 2018-09-29 23:06
(aga required rip in peace)
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 23:07
I only know 11 Drop Entrances from the top of my head.
23:07
4 of them are useless.
23:07
*3
23:07
Wait...
23:08
I think I had it right the first time.
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Espeon 2018-09-29 23:09
3 drops in SW graveyard fairy river cave lumberjack lost woods hideout kak well magic bat uncle ganon
23:09
i think that is it
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 23:09
You missed 1.
23:09
There are 4 in Skull woods.
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Espeon 2018-09-29 23:09
oh ya
23:09
i always forget the big chest drop
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 23:09
The one under the Flowers I think?
23:10
...or the one behind Mothula?
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Espeon 2018-09-29 23:10
below bushes
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 23:10
I think Skull Woods also has 4 Entrances along with the 4 Drops.
23:12
Is there a Vanilla Tracker? (This is this worst place for me to ask if there is a a way to do the dungeons in order of 1, 3, 4, 6, 5, 2, 7, 3 in Vanilla)
23:13
Then again, I think I would go 1, 4, 6, 3, 5, 2, 7, 3
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Espeon 2018-09-29 23:13
good dungeon order that isn't a speedrun is 1 4 3 2 5/6 7
23:14
5 or 6 makes the other one easier
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 23:14
My goal is to get the Cane of Somaria, then Blue Tunic, then take on the other dungeons.
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Espeon 2018-09-29 23:14
you want to do it in that order? it's possible to do the dungeons in any order, but i assume you mean "visit"
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 23:15
I mean, I do Dungeon 3 last only because of Mothula.
23:15
Just becasue I beat Mothula 3 Hearts Swordless Tunicless does not mean I like to.
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Espeon 2018-09-29 23:15
the minimal dip order for getting som then armor would be 1 4 6 5 whatever
23:15
use bombos in IP
23:15
bonk the gap in mire
23:15
bomb jumps in ice
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 23:16
Why do you need to Bomb Jump in Ice Palace?
23:16
That is what the Cane of Somaria is for,/
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Espeon 2018-09-29 23:16
okay you can do it non bomb jumps but you have to not waste a key
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 23:16
Waste a key?
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Espeon 2018-09-29 23:16
it's possible to keylock yourself out of being able to do it bombjumpless, i think
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 23:16
I am looking at a mental Map of that Dungeon.
23:17
I do not see how you can Keylock yourself, and where the bombjump is required.
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Espeon 2018-09-29 23:17
wait
23:17
it's bomb jump or mirror and go from front
23:17
because you want to use the key on the + room door
23:17
but you can't get there without a) wasting time mirroring or b) bomb jumping
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 23:18
Looking up a map of the place seems weird.
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Espeon 2018-09-29 23:18
so do the order i gave you
23:18
also mothula is harder with gold sword in vanilla, so...
23:18
i would just do it after TT
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 23:18
Image attachment
23:19
Why would you have Gold Sword?
23:19
What floor do you need to bombjump?
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Espeon 2018-09-29 23:21
if you wanted to do skull last, you would probably have gold and silvers
23:21
unless you are speedrunning
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 23:21
I would use Fire Rod on Mothula anyway.
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Espeon 2018-09-29 23:21
you would bomb jump in B4, at either 5 or 8
23:22
okay this is super off topic move over to gen if you want to continue discussion ig
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 23:22
I have never bombjumped at either place.
23:22
Okay.
23:22
Where is "Gen"
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fylion 2018-09-29 23:29
#general #off-topic might also be better.
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EmoSaru 2018-09-29 23:47
^
23:48
Also, since it came up, entrance will support full knowledge of connectivity within locations. Accessibility will actually be determined by graph traversal, so it will be "fully modeled" to the extent that that's reasonable. Keysanity will be slightly less perfect in that regard, because unless people want to start marking when they use keys, it's not actually possible to solve correctly. (edited)
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-29 23:50
...I do not mind marking my keyussage.
23:50
...if there is a way to do that that is.
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EmoSaru 2018-09-29 23:51
There is experimental support for it in the tracker right now, but the initial entrance release/testing for LTTP will probably not be using it.
23:52
I also want to see how useful it is in the end, because it's easier for me to just color code connections based on whether they're guaranteed to work
23:52
there are also relatively few dungeons where it matters at all
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-30 01:30
Like Skull Woods, Hyrule Castle, Turttle Rock, and Desert?
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EmoSaru 2018-09-30 02:34
Skull woods doesn't work that way, at least in simple/full entrance
02:34
Desert's exits are not impacted by keys (edited)
02:34
Neither are hyrule castle's, in practical terms (edited)
02:34
Turtle Rock is the only dungeon where it actually matters
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rand(0) 2018-09-30 02:47
Hey emosaru, did you check if its possible to change the name of a tab to include the number of available spots in that specific tab?
02:48
I remember you mentioning there might be a way to accomplish this with LUA-scripting
02:49
I guess the actual question should be if this even made it onto the potential feature list 😄
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EmoSaru 2018-09-30 02:52
I looked into it briefly - it's not currently possible. There is a broad future feature, which is basically allowing Lua to directly manipulate layout objects, which would address this (along with enabling a TON of other things), but that's also a MUCH bigger initiative that's not happening soon. (edited)
02:52
I'm unlikely to add something more specific for this in the near term, because it would require a fair amount of plumbing to do the bad version, and I'd rather just do the good version when the time is right. (edited)
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rand(0) 2018-09-30 03:05
makes sense that you'd wanna work towards a proper implementation of the feature
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sbq92 2018-09-30 08:40
i have a simple request: middle-click to pin a location
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Natalie 2018-09-30 11:51
We've been over the mousewheel inclusion discussion before. I believe the answer on that front is "pressing the mouse wheel is slow and sometimes awkward". Is double-clicking difficult for you? Honest question.
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JRJathome 2018-09-30 11:55
EmoSaru 09/20/2018 In general I try to avoid middle mouse clicks, because depending on your input device they can be anywhere from imprecise to uncomfortable to unreasonably difficult. I have plans to allow the mouse wheel for certain things in the future, but that doesn’t exist currently either.
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Natalie 2018-09-30 12:16
I can vouch for the "unreasonably difficult" part. I had a mouse a while ago that wouldn't middle click unless the wheel was pressed juuuust right.
12:16
Scrolling on wheels is mostly consistent between hardwares. Mouse3 is not. This is a large part of the argument against using Mouse3.
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EmoSaru 2018-09-30 13:45
It also screws laptop users over even worse
13:45
middle click on trackpads/touchpads is, frankly, not a real thing, and it's certainly not a fast/reliable thing
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MECHDRAGON777 2018-09-30 15:39
^
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legendonnelly 2018-10-01 13:11
Not sure if this has been asked. Would there be an update or new pack for inverted LTTPR?
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JRJathome 2018-10-01 13:13
It's already available
13:14
Download the main LTTPR pack. It's one of the variants.
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legendonnelly 2018-10-01 13:15
Well heck you’re all awesome feenHappy
13:15
Thank you! Sorry for the dumb question 🙃
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Algernonab 2018-10-01 23:14
This is something for someone who has made/plans to make a tracker for the OoT Randomizer, particularly Keysanity trackers. -Having a way to indicate that you have the small keys to Gerudo Fortress would be greatly appreciated, since they can now be put into the random item pool by Keysanity. -I'm not sure if this is exclusive to Shopsanity or not, but in the last run I did, there was a third wallet upgrade, which brings the max rupee storage to 999 rupees, as opposed to the 500 rupees in the vanilla game. (edited)
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JRJathome 2018-10-01 23:34
I'm assuming you're looking at my pack. For the keysanity variants, adding support for Gerudo Fortress is on my todo list. I just need to figure out the best way to fit them in my layouts. I also plan to add the 3rd wallet, which is exclusive to shopsanity. In the meantime, Hamsda's Items Only variant has support for both of these.
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Algernonab 2018-10-02 00:50
Awesome. I was looking at yours. Also, just in case you didn't know, it looks like support has also been added for adding Master Quest versions of the dungeons.
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JRJathome 2018-10-02 00:54
Yeah. I'm not sure if there's any difference in the number of keys and chests though, so I don't think it would affect my item trackers. I could be wrong though.
01:00
Ok, Hamsda told me they're different, so I'd need to make another variant.
01:00
Not sure how I'm going to be able to support mixed mode though.
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Algernonab 2018-10-02 01:04
What I would do is make it so that the Mixed version makes it so that you can input the amount of the dungeon with the higher number of keys. For instance, if the vanilla version of a dungeon has 4 keys and the MQ version has 6, then make the "green" number of keys 6.
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JRJathome 2018-10-02 01:05
Yeah, that's what Hamsda's planning on doing. I'm more wondering what to do with the chest counts. I can't change those as easily as he can with the map tracker.
01:05
Maybe it's a sign I should just get rid of chest counts. 🤔
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Algernonab 2018-10-02 01:07
I like having them, personally, because I haven't memorized every single dungeon (I'm not a racer). I'm gonna try a seed without a tracker to see how things go, basically to see what is needed outside of the internal key tracker that's in TestRunner's version.
01:11
Though, another potential issue with the chest counts is that they don't take into account the Deku Salesmen, if they're put into the item pool (e.g. Dodongo's Cavern, which has 4 of them).
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JRJathome 2018-10-02 01:13
I'm aware. I wasn't able to include skullsanity either. Unfortunately, EmoTracker doesn't currently have a way for me to change chest counts with the press of a single button, so there's not much I can do. (edited)
01:17
It's one of those things where Hamsda's tracker surpasses mine since it's easier for him to show/hide those locations in the map tracker depending on which options you choose.
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Hamsda 2018-10-02 01:33
yeah, once we can do dynamic items with lua that will be much nicer
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FunnyMan 2018-10-02 21:55
For inverted, could marking the flute as active please bypass the "can activate flute" check? I'm trying to write an inverted plando, and using the map tracker to sanity-check my placements. It's frustrating that I can't see what my pre-activated flute unlocks.
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EmoSaru 2018-10-02 22:47
Hmmm
22:47
I have mixed feelings on this, as the “activated” state has always been purely visual/optional
22:47
That said, I’ll consider it
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Natalie 2018-10-02 23:11
Re: the tooltip discussion, 9th Edition
23:12
we're definitely starting to get some packages with initially unintuitive icons
23:13
about the only non-intrusive location to put descriptive text is on the bottom bar, and people will only need to read it if the package isn't properly intuitive/is a bit complex in its tracked items
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EmoSaru 2018-10-02 23:17
putting it on the bottom bar is actually substantially more work, thus making the value proposition even worse
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Espeon 2018-10-03 11:35
flute being "activated" is actually relevant in inverted though since you can have it in inventory but not be able to use it yet
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EmoSaru 2018-10-03 11:36
All the flute locked locations currently have an additional requirement of lower light world access to address that
11:37
The question is whether that should be replaced by forcing clicking through to the activated state of the flute
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Espeon 2018-10-03 11:38
having main LW access + pearl + visually unactivated flute should unlock the locations
11:38
but manually clicking through to activated flute should also do it as well
11:38
that way you can have support for both
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EmoSaru 2018-10-03 11:41
To me there’s a weird incongruity there, which is why I said I’d consider it.
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JRJathome 2018-10-03 11:53
I worry that changing the flute will confuse those who are used to locations appearing when clicking on the flute icon.
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Dudude Dude 2018-10-03 13:32
Change flute, add an extra location that's the bird statue in Kakariko Village, make clicking that location change flute state to activated and add the other locations to the map. 👀
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EmoSaru 2018-10-03 13:55
Can I just point out how much additional tracking overhead is being suggested in order to make this change make sense?
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Ninban 2018-10-03 15:29
It's just being avant-garde until the rando makes the bird statue give a random item and make flute progressive 👌
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Natalie 2018-10-03 15:30
hork
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rand(0) 2018-10-05 01:03
Is it possible to have an option/flag that allows for the map to be stretched out to fit the area its assigned to instead of the aspect ratio being kept?
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EmoSaru 2018-10-05 01:17
Not the way it’s currently implemented, and regardless, it would distort the click areas and other things, in some cases breaking UI
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quastIe 2018-10-07 09:14
hello! can we get co-op map/item tracking for LTTP and/or SM? specifically, i mean a feature which allows several people to connect to each other and check off the same list together in real time
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-10-07 09:32
Sure. Have someone host it, connect to Twitch, and have the partners use the ChatHUD interface. Not ideal, prone to user error due to stream delay, but it’ll work with the current framework.
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JRJathome 2018-10-07 09:36
Linked tracking is something Emo plans to work on. (edited)
09:37
Probably not going to happen for a while since her focus right now is on entrance shuffle support.
09:37
But it's on her todo list.
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EmoSaru 2018-10-07 09:52
It’s a high priority feature for me, for a variety of reasons. It is definitely coming.
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Raws 2018-10-10 14:30
Is there a build for Linux, or is the repository available somewhere public so that I can build from source?
14:31
If no and no, are there plans for multi-platform support?
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EmoSaru 2018-10-10 14:32
Neither, and no.
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fylion 2018-10-10 14:32
No and no and no. #faq
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EmoSaru 2018-10-10 14:32
If multi-platform support ever does happen, it will be in the form of a web version.
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Natalie 2018-10-10 14:36
For a minute I thought Discord shat itself and regurgitated an old question. Then I realized someone actually asked the question again.
14:36
🤷
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Raws 2018-10-10 14:38
@EmoSaru Okay thanks for the quick answer. Have you looked at https://github.com/mono/xwt by chance?
mono/xwt
A cross-platform UI toolkit for creating desktop applications with .NET and Mono - mono/xwt
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JRJathome 2018-10-10 14:38
Hey, be nice to each other please.
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Raws 2018-10-10 14:38
Willing to help with the coding if you ever want help 😃 (edited)
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EmoSaru 2018-10-10 14:39
I am aware of xwt.
14:39
But it's not likely to happen.
14:39
The project is very deliberately not open source.
14:39
It's also very heavily WPF based.
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Solski 2018-10-16 15:16
Maybe you should add a spooky meme picture to the welcome page
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EmoSaru 2018-10-16 16:11
@Solski Done and done
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Solski 2018-10-16 16:12
topkek
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Cadenza 2018-10-22 21:01
Hi! Small suggestion: for the map trackers in ALTTPR, it would be nice to include swordless. Like simply in the spot for the sword, if we could indicate we are playing swordless (with a X on the sword, for instance) so logic takes it into account, it would be nice. Right now, I indicate that I have a MS if I have a hammer and a FS if I don't so logic is fine, but it can be confusing on my stream.
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EmoSaru 2018-10-22 21:03
It's on my list to add, along with inverted keysanity support. Both are coming soon'ish, but things have been crazy between work and getting my house ready for TwitchCon
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Cadenza 2018-10-22 21:04
no need for explanation. I'm happy to know it is on your list. Thanks for your answer! 😃
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Vcool122 2018-10-23 09:23
One of my friends showed me a browser based tracker for OoT that update wich item you got automatic, would there be a way to implement something like that in emotracker?
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fylion 2018-10-23 09:24
Autotracking is covered in #faq. The answer is a strong no, mainly because the racing communities for a number of randos don't allow it.
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Vcool122 2018-10-23 09:24
oh ok
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Natalie 2018-10-23 09:33
Uh
09:34
Nothing in a browser should have that much power over other applications on your computer
09:34
That's just begging for enormous security issues
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-03 19:48
@SauceRelic the items in lava lake and triclops pit (magmoor) dont show up unless i have xray visor, which is normal because i have visors set to be required. my suggestion is to add visor required checks as sequence breakable if you dont have the necessary visor
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SauceRelic 2018-11-03 19:48
Yeah sequence breaks for every single one of those options is my next plan
19:49
But finals are coming up so it might be a couple of weeks
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-03 19:49
fair enough. good luck on those finals!
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FerreTrip 2018-11-15 16:27
Suggestion: Make the program ask if you're sure when you click the reset button. I got far in my seed, then when I was done playing, I accidentally clicked the reset button instead of the menu. Didn't save beforehand. I have to redo my seed now. (edited)
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EmoSaru 2018-11-15 16:50
So, while I can consider doing this, I'd just like to point out that CTRL-S/CTRL-SHIFT-S/CTRL-O work for Save, Save As, and Open, just like any other windows application
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-19 12:24
this doesn't go here (edited)
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JRJathome 2018-11-19 12:26
#pack-support
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-19 12:27
ah
12:27
sorry
12:27
I wasn't sure where to put it
12:27
let me move it over there
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Lechtansi 2018-11-20 09:54
hey emo, quick suggestion. Would it be possible to have some kind of log of what gets tracked? My short term memory is balls and having the last few items i've collected be shown somewhere would be tremendously useful. Even if its in a text file (edited)
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EmoSaru 2018-11-20 09:57
It’s possible, although it would be exceedingly low priority on my todo list.
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Lechtansi 2018-11-20 10:07
ok
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deserteagle417 2018-11-22 14:40
Random thought: my map tracker has a few tabs for the different maps. Is it possible/can it be possible to make the tabs (or text in the tabs) change color if there are checkable locations in that area?
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rand(0) 2018-11-22 14:42
I already requested something similar a while ago to have the number of unchecked locations displayed in a tab name but at the moment there is no way to change the tab names dynamically. I think Emo said that is a (low priority) planned feature though iirc. (edited)
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EmoSaru 2018-11-22 14:58
That sort of thing is definitely on my radar for the future. More generally, allowing scripts to manipulate layout elements is on my list.
14:58
But it’s a ways out
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deserteagle417 2018-11-22 15:10
Cool. No worries on the when at all. I still gotta finish the other character in my tracker :D
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-22 20:55
@Herreteman hey about the seasons tracker... When marking an item to the dotted white square after a visual check, there's the option for the four jewels. But it just puts all four of them there and clearing the chest icon doesn't update any jewels. Might I suggest setting it to allow people to mark individual jewels so they update on the item list when the chest icon is cleared?
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Herreteman 2018-11-23 02:25
I considered that at first but it was inconvenient, they take a lot of space in the capture layout and it already has a lot of items
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Natalie 2018-11-23 02:49
Forgive my complete lack of memory on Seasons, but aren't those four gems functionally identical in that they're useless alone and are only 1/4 of an entrance key to a region?
02:50
Having them as separate is more aesthetic than function at that point.
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Herreteman 2018-11-23 03:13
Pretty much, yeah, but the request comes mostly from the fact that it doesn't auto-update the tracker with a jewel, unlike other options for capturing an item, so it can be confusing if you forget to mark a jewel
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-02 23:02
yo @SauceRelic I figured something out. the underwater item in Watery Hall can be visually checked without having gravity suit, and even without having beaten flaaghra if you have enough health. you just stand in the right spot and whip out the scan visor to scan whatever item is sitting there
23:04
so the square can be blue whether the charge beam item spot has been retreived or not i think
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rand(0) 2018-12-03 01:47
there are so many varying ways of checking items before being able to collect them that I think it's pretty pointless to single out specific locations
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SauceRelic 2018-12-03 06:09
In MP1 most of the ones I've found are just room access plus maybe 1 or 2 items so it's simpler than you'd think
06:10
I'll add that when I get a chance
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DJProtag 2018-12-04 07:50
I did a bit of searching and the topic may have come up before, but I have a suggestion for the tooltips. Can support be added for including an image? Maybe give the user an option to include images or not along with or without the description. Descriptions are nice but in a game like OOT images can go a long way. To give my experience since playing, I haven't done OOT in forever so having a chest in Fire Temple be described as "Map Chest" and that's it can be kind of off-putting if I'm tracking each chest I'm picking up. Yes, it's nicely laid out on Hamsda's tracker so as I track upwards I'll probably hit the map chest and track it accurately. In a place like Water Temple where you can go multiple ways right from the get go it's not so nice. It'd mostly be a thing to really help newer folks get into the randomizer so they don't make tracking mistakes and can learn tracking places easier. It may not hold a ton of value, especially for experienced people, but with the way things currently work I don't think it'd get in the way of experienced peoples' playthroughs and help out newbies.
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Mihalo 2018-12-04 11:29
You are kind of expected a bit to know vanilla. In which case a name like "map chest" should be obvious.
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EmoSaru 2018-12-04 12:18
At one point in the early development of the tracker, there was support for per-section thumbnail images in locations. It was effectively disabled when I added the compact location display used in pinned locations. In practice, the thumbnails needed to be small enough that they were not terribly helpful, and they increase the size of packs significantly. The cost of effort/bandwidth/etc. necessary to support them far outstrips their value, when there are resources (including just playing the vanilla game) for learning that render them useless.
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Hamsda 2018-12-04 12:24
yeah I aint including a total of like 400 somewhat reasonably sized images for every location and make my pack 200mb big
12:24
I get that some of the descriptions for the locations in zootr aren't the best
12:25
but as emo said, the gain just isn't there in relation to the cost
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Natalie 2018-12-04 12:28
Identifying for users locations based on their names (particularly those names written in the spoiler log, which in some cases can be very... inside joke [looking at you, Ganon's Tower]) should rest on the shoulders of those members of the individual communities who are responsible for producing documentation on the randomizer itself.
12:29
To put it more simply, that kind of info belongs in an easily accessible webpage for those who need to learn it, not clogging up a tracker for those who already know it.
12:32
To my recollection, the whole of OoTR is described cleanly enough in both the spoiler log location names and in tracker location names that if you've played the vanilla game recently it should be easy to know which is what.
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qwertymodo 2018-12-10 09:42
Small logic suggestion for LttP map trackers, including the SMLttP tracker. Misery Mire and Turtle Rock locations should have a blue "checkable" state when you have access to the OW area for checking the medallions. Blame where blame is due, I'm the dingus who was just blindly following the tracker, but in my defense, it was like 2AM at the time... after I basically full cleared every other location, I was racking my brain for locations I had missed, and the map was showing nothing.
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Hamsda 2018-12-10 09:52
thats usually done by right clicking the medallions, as the capture is something you get in the location and dont need for it
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Ninban 2018-12-10 10:15
I'm with qwerty on the proposed change. I don't really care about the colour (make it yellow even) but as soon as you have one medallion and possiblr access to at least one chest it should show somehow that you maybe have access
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EmoSaru 2018-12-10 10:43
It would probably have to be yellow as it stands right now. I’m a little bit hesitant, but it’s an interesting suggestion and I’m thinking about it seriously.
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Hamsda 2018-12-10 11:02
oh that's what you meant, yeah yellow without any medallions seems reasonable for people that don't mark the medallion to open TR/MM?
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-12-10 11:13
Red: No medallions Yellow: At least one medallion Green: All medallions or properly-indicated medallion. But I think this is more at #pack-support .
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qwertymodo 2018-12-10 11:35
Yes, you right-click on the medallions to say that you know which medallion it is, but if you don't know that because you haven't checked yet, the location defaults to inaccessible, and is completely hidden
11:39
Not knowing how things are working under the hood, blue seemed like the best fit, but I don't actually care about color, just something. To me, blue would fit even if you had no medallions, just location accessibility, but if you went with yellow, then location accessibility + have any medallion
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EmoSaru 2018-12-10 11:47
FYI, I just toyed with this a bit. I will not be doing it unless I issue a patch to the tracker app itself, as with the current implementation of accessibility level priority for display, the only color Turtle Rock can show up in these cases without both the fire and ice rod is Orange (mixed accessibility), which is substantially more misleading than it's worth. (edited)
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Gilgatex 2018-12-10 13:14
Yeah, I'm with @EmoSaru on the SMZ3 tracker too. There needs to be another color or else it's misleading. It isn't blue because there isn't an item to check/capture, and it isn't yellow because you can't sequence break it.
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EmoSaru 2018-12-10 13:15
Honestly, I’d be fine if it was blue or yellow. But orange is deeply misleading.
13:15
If I make a change, it will probably be to allow it to display as blue in a new variant of the inspectable state.
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Gilgatex 2018-12-10 13:16
And if she does that I'll update mine as well 😃 (edited)
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Lechtansi 2018-12-10 13:31
blue makes the most sense, since thats already the "go see what this is for later" color
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Davkilla101 2018-12-14 15:55
A bit of a minor suggestion with regards to the updater: either make the progress bar wider or change the color to something that's easier to see. That light green is a bit hard to make out against the white background of the progress bar. (edited)
15:58
Perhaps a darker green?
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EmoSaru 2018-12-14 15:59
So, I can look into it, but it's a standard Windows progress bar, an I'm always dubious of changing the look of standard controls without a good reason for doing so
15:59
largely because in some cases it also can defeat built in accessibility features
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Davkilla101 2018-12-14 16:00
I understand, maybe just make the progress bar 4px tall instead of the 2px tall that it is now?
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EmoSaru 2018-12-14 16:01
I'll take a look at it next revision and see if I think any changes are beneficial.
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Davkilla101 2018-12-14 16:03
Thanks 👍
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EmoSaru 2018-12-14 16:03
Just so it's clear, that was not me saying I'll change it, but I will take a look at it.
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Davkilla101 2018-12-14 16:03
That's all I'm asking, really
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TheBookworm2 2018-12-16 21:33
a Minor suggestion in regards to the map tracker would it be possible to add a zoom function so that you can zoom in on the interactive maps. Because it is really annoying to have to squint to make out details on the maps when they are large maps or have a bunch of makers clumped together or both.
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Natalie 2018-12-16 21:38
Part of this rests on the pack developer to provide appropriate sub-maps
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JRJathome 2018-12-16 21:38
It's been suggested before and it's on Emo's radar.
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Natalie 2018-12-16 21:39
Part of this can also be resolved in what I believe is a future feature (screw the english language) which will provide for on-map links to sub-maps.
21:39
Don't quote me on that one, but I recall it being upcoming Soonish(tm)
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EmoSaru 2018-12-16 22:07
It’s on the list, but not necessarily soonish.
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Gilgatex 2018-12-19 01:43
Any chance we can have the app remember the last window position/size? Right now I have a blank layout saved that I just load every time, but I'd prefer not to have to do that. It's important if I broadcast the entire window for streaming (which I do).
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EmoSaru 2018-12-19 01:48
Why not just establish a fixed size for what you want to capture using the broadcast view?
01:48
You can certainly override your broadcast view to use the main tracker layout.
01:53
So long as you use a layout reference, tab controls will even sync with what you've done on the main tracker, so long as it's actually the same layout (e.g. you would need to force it either horizontal or vertical and keep it that way)
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Gilgatex 2018-12-19 04:02
There are plenty of ways around it. I was just making a suggestion that it should be standard.
04:03
It seems like a good feature to me.
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EmoSaru 2018-12-19 11:23
The reason I haven’t done it is that it is actually rather difficult to deal with multi-monitor displays in windows, especially when people change the configuration. It is sadly very easy for the window to get “lost” off screen, with only confusing/non-obvious ways to get it back.
11:24
Whether that feature exists or not. I will ALWAYS advocate for using the broadcast view for capture. It is strictly better for it, due to both size constraints and the fact that it has a stable window name, eliminating the need to ever recapture it in OBS.
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Hamsda 2018-12-25 13:29
I was thinking, Emo, would it be possible to have another indicator sort of similar to the inspect one? Say instead of using {} it uses something like <> and uses another accessibility level. It then basically ignores the parent access rules so it is always visible. The idea behind that being inspects vs hints. ootr and z3r are sort of reversed with how their extra knowledge systems have worked. ootr always had hints and recently got actual inspects, z3r always had inspects and now recently got hints. I made the inspect system sort of work for my ootr map tracker, but many hintable locations are locked behind many items and couldn't actually be marked once you got the hint, which has always bugged me. I'll try to explain with a z3r example: say you get an early hint for west side swamp, but you can't mark it because swamp needs a bunch more items to unlock itself. So by differentiating inspects and hints, that would allow the hintable locations to show up, even if the parent location itself is not accessible.
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EmoSaru 2018-12-25 13:48
So, we've definitely known for a while that hints on the level of OOTR are... less than ideal, in the current system. I think this is a reasonable approach to take, though there may be others. I'm away for the rest of this week, and there's GDQ afterwards, but I think creating an accessibility level or something that is built for hints is a good thing. This solution certainly doesn't make things any worse than they are, and establishes the markup that could be used to drive alternate hint capture UIs in the future.
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Hamsda 2018-12-25 13:53
Yeah no need to hurry, enjoy your holidays and GDQ 😃 we've had the current hint system for a while and it is decent enough, just thought a more specialized solution would be nice in the future. ootr and z3r are the only randomizers I really know, but maybe other games can profit from this as well.
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EmoSaru 2018-12-25 13:54
One thing I've been trying to figure out is a solution for keeping hintable locations off the map until they're accessible, but still allowing recording the hints. There's some stuff I'm working on with the entrance stuff and linked tracker stuff that potentially helps there, but I'm still very much just thinking about it for hints.
13:54
OOTR is the main case, because there are SOOOOOO many hintable locations.
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Hamsda 2018-12-25 13:55
yeah I worked on the hintable locations again for the latest update I made, and noticed how many I still was missing
13:56
If you can find a solution for keeping them off the map, that would be wonderful, but them showing up with another color might be an okay solution ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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EmoSaru 2018-12-25 13:56
Yeah, adding a color is easy, but long-term I'm thinking about it in the context of a more general "notes" system.
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Hamsda 2018-12-25 13:57
That would be interesting
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EmoSaru 2018-12-25 13:57
It comes from the UX design I've done on linked trackers.
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Hamsda 2018-12-25 13:57
right now I usually have an instance of vsc open to take notes in addition to the tracker
13:58
so having that built in would be 👌
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EmoSaru 2018-12-25 13:58
Yeah, I'm sort of thinking about both item and text notes
13:58
And basically any location with notes shows up on a map slightly differently, with an expandable notes bubble that lets you see everything
13:59
My current thought is that "inaccessible but has notes" shows up translucent
zsrGG 2
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Jademalo 2018-12-29 10:10
Small suggestion for broadcast view - Would it be possible to have it transparent dumped to a PNG whenever an item is updated? That would mean you could add the png to OBS, and you would have a really easy to work with lossless quality image source with a really low overhead. OBS seems to automatically update images when they change, I use Snip for album artwork and it does something similar. It also solves quality issues with NDI, as well as not requiring a plugin and a runtime install. The downside is obviously the update speed isn't totally instantaneous, but considering how infrequently the tracker is actually updated and how unessential speed is, realtime video isn't required.
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EmoSaru 2018-12-29 11:08
See the response I literally just wrote in #pack-support (for some reason) to the same question l.
11:08
I’m not planning on it.
11:09
If there’s enough legitimate demand, I will consider it, but unless you’re all streaming at 5000kbps or higher, I’m fairly certain your viewers’ experiences have not appreciably changed, and if you’re concerned, you can double the size of your broadcast layout.
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Jademalo 2018-12-29 11:54
Alright, I still completely think it will be a worthwhile idea. Not having to install third party middleware is enough of a reason for some, but different things are important to different people. I'd much rather higher fidelity over lower latency personally, considering how infrequently the broadcast view output is actually updated. I still think things like that are worthwhile having as options, giving people choice like that is only a positive thing in my eyes. A tickbox to enable it in advanced means it's there for people who want it, but doesn't impact people who don't. (edited)
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EmoSaru 2018-12-29 14:10
Again, if there is enough legitimate interest, I will consider it. I understand what you’re after. The WPF update/render loop does not work quite so simply as you think. The broadcast view renders at up to 60fps, as do almost all WPF windows. There are certain features of the broadcast view that force that, and they are in active use by a bunch of streamers. Whenever possible, I would prefer not to divide the use base of a feature in ways that just cause other support headaches. I understand your concerns, and I understand what you’re asking for. I will consider doing it as soon as the effort of supporting it, both from an implementation standpoint and from an ongoing support standpoint, is balanced or beat by the value it adds. Right now, as far as I’m concerned, it’s not.
14:14
Anybody is able to disable drop shadows via an override if they want to use window capture and a color key. The override system exists for a reason. For those with solid color backgrounds, they can change the background color to match, and retain dropshadows. Or, they can use NDI, which offers proper transparent capture with some minor quality trades that, in my experience, are on par with stream encoding at reasonable bitrates, and which pass through said encoding without adding additional error/noise.
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Samura1man 2019-01-04 06:42
@Darkened5ky Hey sorry for ping, thought you'd might be interested, I had some ideas you could add for TWW Tracker if possible: -Randomized sword/swordless is a thing in randomizer so would be nice to be able to untick even remove sword completely from tracker -Randomized dungeon location to help out in map tracker would be cool if able to, not a huge deal since there aren't many dungeons to memorize -I like knowing have I found upgrades for arrow/bomb capacity, even some other stuff is missing in tracker like hurricane spin
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Lucibear 2019-01-07 05:06
@Hamsda is there any chance you could add in the option for Stones to open the bridge?
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Hamsda 2019-01-07 06:07
is that new?
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Lucibear 2019-01-07 06:28
it's been there for a few weeks i think
06:28
i just made an override and added in the option myself
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Ninban 2019-01-20 19:22
make hovering a sequence break kthxbye
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EmoSaru 2019-01-20 19:22
no
monkaS 2
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Cadenza 2019-01-20 22:30
wow! Love that new feature! Would it be possible to add notes to items directly? (like you read a hint saying boots are hammer locked and you put a note on the boots to remind you that) That would be even more awesome! (a big thank you for the work already done. It's honestly wonderful! ❤ )
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EmoSaru 2019-01-20 22:31
Not currently, but over time I would like for more things to support notes, as well as having a space for notes not attached to anything in particular. (edited)
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Cadenza 2019-01-20 22:31
nice! thanks 😃
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Frostbite3030 2019-01-21 05:27
Hey, not sure which thread to post this in or if its been pointed out before but i noticed a small error in the logic for the Inverted Keysanity tracker. It indicates that Ice Palace is fully clearable without gloves. Cheers, love the tracker.
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blasteg 2019-01-21 05:31
this usually goes to #pack-support
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fylion 2019-01-21 09:37
Could you add the ability to clear locations that aren't showing as logically accessible? I find myself wanting to do that in a few cases: -Playing in co-op when my partner starts clearing stuff that I can't do yet. -Reading a hint that eliminates a location from being useful, when I don't have it -If a door/connector isn't fully tracked or logically accounted for in Entrance
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Ninban 2019-01-21 09:38
It's already there 👀
09:38
In the tracker settings
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fylion 2019-01-21 09:38
wait what
09:39
ahahahaha
09:39
oh god I think I asked for this months ago and already got it granted.
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Ninban 2019-01-21 09:40
so fast
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Rikkukun 2019-01-22 00:16
@Hamsda don't know if this is possible: add the option for keysanity to consider shuffle logic for boss keys but not small keys
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LostThePirate 2019-01-22 00:19
The keysanity variant just tracks what you have available based on your key counts. I use it for non-keysanity runs all the time to help make sure I don't skip things that are available. You can mark off boss keys and small keys wherever you find them, in their respective dungeon or elsewhere.
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Hamsda 2019-01-22 02:18
yeah not really something I want to add another variant for @Rikkukun just mark the small keys as collected at the start and you have basically the same result
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-23 01:06
@Hamsda i had in idea while watching someone stream a rando tonight. for each deku scrub, what would you think about putting the amount of rupees that each one costs in the name of the check?
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JRJathome 2019-01-23 01:11
Doesn't scrubsanity change all the scrub prices to 10 rupees?
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-23 01:11
does it?
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Redpika 2019-01-23 01:12
if you set it as such
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-23 01:12
never mind then lol
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Natalie 2019-01-23 01:24
That's a setting, then? I recall randomized prices from the SimpleFlips stream.
01:24
In unshuffled scrubs, sure, post the standard price on the locations...
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LostThePirate 2019-01-23 01:38
There are 3 different settings for how much Scrubs can cost when shuffled - Affordable (all cost 10r), Expensive (they all cost whatever they did in vanilla), and Random (0-99r). (edited)
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Natalie 2019-01-23 01:53
Poor SimpleFlips kept not having enough rupees. The new notes system will become helpful in this situation if changes are ever made to allow the Deku Scrubs to tell their true wares and price.
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LostThePirate 2019-01-23 01:54
That PR was submitted this evening, lol. Hopefully it makes the cut.
01:54
Well, not what they're selling, but how much they're selling it for.
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kirbymastah 2019-01-23 17:04
For the oracle of seasons rando tracker, is it possible to add a marker for repairing the pirate bell, similarly to how the ages one already has a tuni bell one?
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Herreteman 2019-01-24 04:59
It's something that I had in mind at some point since story progression checks were something that I didn't really consider for the Oracles packs until Ages
04:59
I was gonna add some in a future update so I'll make sure to have one for the bell, thanks for reminding me! @kirbymastah
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MrMario7788 2019-01-25 15:53
@Hamsda Hey I just have a small gripe with the minimal items map tracker of yours, and that is that there is no "free" option for the medallions at the top. I could probably spend some time to figure out how to add it in but just wondering if you forgot or it was too minor
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Hamsda 2019-01-25 16:55
I never saw a point in free, because it conveys no additional info beyond the starting question marks
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JRJathome 2019-01-25 17:06
I'd say it's more important for a map tracker so it knows when to show the Prelude, Nocturne, LAC or OoT locations.
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LostThePirate 2019-01-25 17:07
I think it's just the word/label "free" that's absent
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JRJathome 2019-01-25 17:48
Good point. I forgot how Hamsda had that layout set up.
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Hamsda 2019-01-25 17:50
yeah that one just has all the meds split and you cycle through the labels
17:50
(which is inefficient but fits better rooShrug ) (edited)
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JRJathome 2019-01-25 17:57
Yeah. My broadcast view that I made for the normal map variant is based on the minimal variant, but shows all medallions/stones. Whatever works. 😃
Image attachment
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Ketris 2019-01-26 06:02
probably a huge request, but would multiworld support be possible where you're able to link up with other people to see their items/checks on a separate tab or something?
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Gilgatex 2019-01-26 06:15
For what purpose?
06:16
like co-op play?
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Ketris 2019-01-26 06:28
not exactly. how multiworld works, items are shuffled across many player's games. like my hookshot could be in your fire temple. right now for big games people are having to run trackers via google sheets like this http://bombch.us/C3_Y
06:29
because, for example, if you already have a slingshot and i see one for sale thats yours for 250 rupees i know i can skip buying it, or i know i have to if you don't have one at all etc
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Gilgatex 2019-01-26 07:07
I'm interested to hear more but it's not a suggestion, so I'll DM you
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EmoSaru 2019-01-26 12:16
The problem with multiworld is that the number of players is entirely variable
12:17
That said, my linked tracker stuff has some features on the backend that make this potentially doable
12:17
I’ll be thinking about it
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LostThePirate 2019-02-01 00:57
Minor request for the FAQ - please add that updating a package mid-run will void your save data? We get a lot of folks in the OoTR server who do their runs over several sittings, and on many occasions have lost their saves by updating a tracker package mid-run. Since there isn't currently a disclaimer anywhere I can easily find, I can't comfortably tell anyone, "You should know not to do that."
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JRJathome 2019-02-01 00:59
Emo had something like that in the release notes of version 2.1, but you're right. It should probably be in #faq
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EmoSaru 2019-02-01 00:59
Just updated the FAQ entry about save/load with the contents of that release note
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LostThePirate 2019-02-01 01:00
zsrLove
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Derrick 2019-02-14 16:42
Thanks to some encouragement. I technically have the very beginnings of a map tracker for Link's Awakening
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Sal the Dragon 2019-02-14 16:45
Lol that's great! But how is that a #suggestions ?
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Natalie 2019-02-14 16:46
Probably more #general content
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Derrick 2019-02-14 16:46
Shizz. My bad. I will say 50 Hail Mary's and go and sin no more
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JRJathome 2019-02-14 21:45
I'd love to see that, @Derrick. I'm currently waiting for entrance shuffle support in EmoTracker, and even then, I'm not confident in my abilities to add a map tracker to the item tracker I've already released.
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Natalie 2019-02-14 21:50
..Since the topic is still here, what would people think about a clean 2x upscale of the in-game overview map? It's kind of super busy and hard to follow, especially when you start putting locations on it.
21:50
Looking at you, Seasons.
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Derrick 2019-02-15 01:32
@JRJathome I am going to throw your name in the release notes. I used part of your item tracker code and made a few tweaks and then added in location tracker.
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SadRico 2019-02-22 15:58
is someone working on a secret of mana tracker?
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WillardJBradley 2019-02-23 00:22
what is there to track in SoM?
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SadRico 2019-02-23 00:58
i would say found elements, defeated bosses,weapon orbs and weapons (maybe items like flammy?) (edited)
00:59
but its a linear rando
01:03
they're working for an open world one
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ZodiacDredd 2019-02-23 13:31
Full Axiom Verge tracker would be hotness
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Natalie 2019-02-24 00:00
For the sake of completeness:
[11:55 PM] Natalie: But yes, you're a little bit behind on updating {the OoTR package}. 100 skulltula tracking has been in since December 28. New bridge settings were added in January. [11:56 PM] Natalie: Perhaps we should have a notification that the specific pack the user is using at the moment has an update? [11:56 PM] Iyan Siwik: That's not a bad idea [11:57 PM] Iyan Siwik: @EmoSaru what do you think about that? [11:57 PM] Natalie: It has value for players of multiple randos; they may not update the packages for the randos they aren't playing at the moment. [11:58 PM] Natalie: (That's a bit lazy, maybe, but it does happen. [cough it's me]) [11:59 PM] Iyan Siwik: That's me too, though recently I've gotten into the habit of checking for updates every time I launch the program
 (edited)
00:01
tl;dr: some sort of notification to the user if the pack they are currently using has an update available, rather than/in addition to "packages you have installed have updates"
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 00:52
I'll put some thought into that. It doesn't line up super well with the current UX, outside of maybe a color change on the package manager icon. I'm a bit hesitant to throw much more screen real estate at it, and people kinda hate repeated dialogs on startup, so we'll have to see. (edited)
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RhynoBytes 2019-02-25 09:56
Would you consider adding entrance randomized support as well as heart pieces for the item randomizer?
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Sal the Dragon 2019-02-25 10:22
Heart pieces are completely optional and not required for game completion. I can't see why they would need to be added to the tracker.
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 10:32
Heart piece tracking is not something I intend to add. It’s literally visible on screen at all times.
10:33
With respect to entrance, I’ve had it in progress for quite a while. It’s coming, but it’s a big project to do properly (has to work for lots of games), and life stuff and priority changes have had it on hold for a bit.
😛 1
😃 1
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RhynoBytes 2019-02-25 12:21
Ok. Thanks.
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Ketris 2019-02-25 14:58
Suggestion: CTRL+Z to undo misclicks where you don't even know what you misclicked.... 😢
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 14:59
There are features in development for the future that will likely eventually enable undo.
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Ketris 2019-02-25 15:00
yay ❤
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 15:00
Undo is not the primary feature driving it - it's a side effect.
15:00
I don't have a timeline for you.
15:00
So don't hold your breath for it. 😃
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Ketris 2019-02-25 15:00
Yeah I get you're probably not currently keeping a history to undo from (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 15:00
It's also largely to due with the fact that there are multiple dependent actions that can occur, and this gets even more complicated with more advanced Lua scripting involved. (edited)
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Ketris 2019-02-25 15:01
How about (simpler than a full undo) showing the last thing you clicked in a weird color (purple?) but only if F11 is toggled?
15:02
I'll stop now. lol
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 15:02
I'm in progress on the other thing. It's gonna be a while - not going to build something I have to rip out anyway, and that affects the UI.
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Ketris 2019-02-25 15:03
Fair enough. Good luck 😃
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neurodaemon 2019-02-26 17:19
auto-save feature would be nice 😃
17:20
for the casual, non-racer gamers that don't always finish a play-through in one sitting
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Espeon 2019-02-26 17:24
just hit ctrl-s to save
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Natalie 2019-02-26 17:24
we have a manual save
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Espeon 2019-02-26 17:24
auto-save is unnecessary
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neurodaemon 2019-02-26 17:29
I know there is a manual save, I just forgot to press it when I went to sleep XD lol
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Bryce Davonport 2019-02-28 04:07
Maybe I've just missed the settings for it, but being able to change where the map sits in the tracker would be a cool feature
04:07
Like, on the left is how it is atm, but the right hand side is a layout I'd prefer
Image attachment
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JRJathome 2019-02-28 05:35
There was an option in the menu at one point for switching which side the map was on, but I can't remember whether or not it was removed. Regardless, you should be able to change it by overriding the tracker layout. (edited)
05:36
If you need help with that, feel free to ask in #customization-support
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Ninban 2019-02-28 05:42
The menu option only switches the tracker to be on the left or right side, but won't help for what Bryce is trying to do. I think overriding is the best solution for that
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JRJathome 2019-02-28 05:44
Oh, right. Sorry, apparently I can't read at 5:30 AM.
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Frankling 2019-02-28 08:53
for alttpr is it possible to add to the logic of the tracker that we can access east dw without flippers, aga or hammer since we can bomb jump and fake flipper to it
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fylion 2019-02-28 08:57
I believe that's been asked before, Emo's response was that from a UX perspective she didn't want the whole world lighting up
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Frankling 2019-02-28 08:57
oh ok
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Ninban 2019-02-28 09:02
You can always override the logic file to allow it, that's what I did personally since I disagreed with emo on that point
09:04
But you need to keep in mind that if she releases logic updates to the pack your override will still be overriding, so you would want to override again
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Frankling 2019-02-28 09:17
can you tell me what i need to change in those lines?
09:17
// Eastern Dark World { "name": "Eastern Dark World", "color": "#35046b", "group": "Eastern Hyrule", "access_rules": [ "aga1,moonpearl", "hammer,lift1,moonpearl", "lift2,flippers,moonpearl", "lift2,boots,pearl,[hammer]" ],
09:23
nvm found it
09:23
thanks!
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Unknownavailability 2019-03-01 00:32
Not sure how possible, but your installed packs being towards the top of the list in case they are the ones needing updates and are at the bottom.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-01 02:17
It's possible, but I would need to do it in a separate section, so as not to violate the game sort. I'll look into it at some point!
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Unknownavailability 2019-03-01 05:52
Cool 👍
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cheamo 2019-03-01 10:06
Small thing, but it'd be nice to not have the version in the window title so that streaming scenes etc. don't need to be changed after an update.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-01 10:06
This is what the broadcast view is for.
10:07
It makes me sad every time I see somebody capturing the main tracker view.
☝ 1
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crossproduct 2019-03-01 10:08
sakuCry
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EmoSaru 2019-03-01 10:08
The broadcast view can be opened with F2, or from Gear Menu > Application > Broadcast View. It provides a custom, customizable layout for your stream. Its title never changes, making capturing easier. And it allows you to customize your on-stream layout without affecting the main tracker UI. (edited)
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crossproduct 2019-03-01 10:09
Can we have the map color codes ignore invisible locations? e.g. A cave has 2 chests. One is visible and accessible. The other is invisible and inaccessible. The square is orange because there is an unreachable chest. But the unreachable chest doesn't matter to the user, because that location is disabled by flags.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-01 10:10
I will look into it.
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crossproduct 2019-03-01 10:10
WAAAIT... i can add "flag=false" or whatever as a separate requirement while it's invisible sakuSmart
10:12
!flag_sk
10:12
wait, that's not right feenTspin
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Lechtansi 2019-03-01 10:13
@EmoSaru is there an easier way to display the map on stream other than capturing the main window?
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crossproduct 2019-03-01 10:14
@Lechtansi I guess you could ask the dev to add the map to the Broadcast window?
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Lechtansi 2019-03-01 10:21
i mean, currently im happy to just capture the main window and deal with it breaking on version upgrades. but if it could be added to the roadmap that would be a+
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EmoSaru 2019-03-01 10:26
Anything you see in the main window can be added to your broadcast view layout - they use the exact same layout system. Ask for help in #customization-support.
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Lechtansi 2019-03-01 10:30
cool
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codemann8 2019-03-01 11:51
Is there any way the broadcast view can have a different color background so that we can chroma key it? Currently OBS cannot remove the background without pulling parts from the rest
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Natalie 2019-03-01 11:52
Does the NDI plugin not work for you?
11:52
If it doesn't work for whatever reason, you can set the background color with an override.
11:53
The broadcast window has NDI support, which means it can provide a transparent-background video feed to overlay in OBS with the right plugin.
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codemann8 2019-03-01 11:53
I don't see where there are options like this are, I also don't know what NDI is
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Natalie 2019-03-01 11:55
This is probably something that should be pinned in #customization-support until such time as we have a more thorough documentation.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-01 12:12
There are lots of examples in #customization-support of how to set background colors.
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Sahsha 2019-03-01 19:30
Make the updater minimize the main window. If you have always on top enabled, it kidnaps your system due to not being able to minimize the main window while the update window has control of the program.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-01 20:38
Good suggestion. Will do.
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Kauz 2019-03-03 19:04
I know from a standard run perspective (ganon goal) it would be pretty useless, but could we get GT to be a location in the event we're playing an alternate goal seed like Ped?
19:05
Or is this something I can change with customization?
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Sal the Dragon 2019-03-03 19:15
Well it's not likely you'll have to go to GT in a Ped seed lol
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-03-03 19:36
Roadmap indicates that may be changing.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-03 19:49
With some of the upcoming changes, I will get it added.
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Kauz 2019-03-04 10:08
Awesome, thank you! Had a daily seed throw that at me so I figured I’d ask 😃
10:13
Do we know where the roadmap is? I can’t find it pinned anywhere in the other discord.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-04 10:57
As a general rule, ask over there. To answer your question, check the topic of main-dev
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crossproduct 2019-03-07 21:22
Can you make it so that Locations ignore invisible Sections when determining what color to display on the map? Example: You have a Location with 3 Sections: X, Y, and Z. X has been opened, Y is inaccessible, and Z is invisible. The map square is orange (instead of red), but when the user clicks for more information, it shows no available chests.
21:28
Also, would be cool if Sections could have their own map coordinates for area sub-maps.
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Hamsda 2019-03-07 21:33
sections having their own map coordinates makes no sense though. at that point they are exactly the same as locations
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crossproduct 2019-03-07 21:35
Unless you have multiple maps... I can have Location "Cave" with Sections: "Basement","Surface","Prison"... on my world map, it all shows as one location, then have a separate map for Cave, which shows the coordinates of ALL THREE Sections, and they are treated as the same object, so if you open it on either map, it updates the other. (edited)
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Hamsda 2019-03-07 21:41
thats what lua is for
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EmoSaru 2019-03-07 21:49
Area sub-maps are sort of an interesting case. I think some extensions would be required, but yeah, this would be an inappropriate use of sections. I'd much rather solve this with locations somehow, maybe by offering a location type that acts as a composite location for its children.
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crossproduct 2019-03-07 21:50
That's cool. I wish I hadn't brought that up, because I think my first suggestion was more important x)
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EmoSaru 2019-03-07 21:52
Yeah, that part is definitely addressable
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crossproduct 2019-03-07 21:52
I have to write a ton of special cases and hand-tailor them for each Location in order to make the map show the correct color. (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-03-07 21:53
I'll look into it for the next version
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Migs 2019-03-11 12:20
Not sure if it's been suggested, but maybe a settings menu to set the hot keys for all the functions (like that new undo button, which requires the window to be active I believe) Having hot keys would be nice for using stream deck to have an undo button without needing the focus on the window to do the undo. Or maybe just a !hud undo? Is that a thing?
12:21
These probably "on the list" but just figured I'd toss in the ideas in case any were missed.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-11 13:07
Enabling undo for chathud is not going to happen - it’s too easy for multiple users to compete and wreak havoc
13:07
Global hotkeys cause as many problems as they solve, and are not on my list
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The Gooiest Slime 2019-03-12 03:39
Are there any plans for map support for LOZ?
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Tekky 2019-03-12 03:42
If no one has made one yet, then no
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Natalie 2019-03-12 06:58
Anyone can make a tracker package for any game, even if it doesn't have a rando
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JRJathome 2019-03-12 08:53
Dudude Dude has expressed interest in making that, but due to the nature of the Z1 randomizer, he's waiting for EmoTracker's Entrance Shuffle support to be added. (edited)
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Natalie 2019-03-12 08:54
Cart, horse, putting before.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-12 09:32
Hmm? I think that’s a perfect reasonable decision TBH
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Zembar 2019-03-12 10:02
I’m not sure what a z1 map tracker would even do without it
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WillardJBradley 2019-03-12 10:03
but is it ZHelper?
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JRJathome 2019-03-12 10:03
I mean, you probably could make something similar to ZHelper using progressive items as the map squares. Dude made something like that for the Z2 pack. There's no logic though.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-12 10:19
Entrance rando support got deferred until after networked tracking, largely because network tracking fundamentally changes the underlying data model for the whole tracker, and doing entrance first makes that refactor more complicated. It’s coming though. Side note - undo support is the alpha test for the new data model.
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Dudude Dude 2019-03-12 13:00
And yeah, my current model for mapping for Z2R would work for Z1R, but it'd just be copying ZHelper's work into EmoTracker... With more limitations since I won't be able to offer the customizability it does. So I'm waiting until there's better support for something similar in other games, instead of trying to force the square peg into the round hole.
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Dudude Dude 2019-03-12 13:32
And one of the things I'd definitely be looking into is adding what little logic it needs so it'd only highlight locations on the overworld you have the required items for, etc.
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Kono Tyran 2019-03-12 16:04
Sorry if I missed something but what do you mean by network tracking? Linking up two people's trackers so someone watching your stream can track for you? Or is this related to the auto tracking network idea that I was reading about earlier?
16:08
Ok a quick search in discord has informed me that its my first thought.
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JRJathome 2019-03-12 16:22
I believe part of the reason for wanting network tracking is so restream channels such as SG could use EmoTracker as well.
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Natalie 2019-03-12 16:49
Networking trackers also leads to such fun things as multiworld, in the far future.
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Kono Tyran 2019-03-12 17:09
O_o that would. Be cool...
17:10
But, also how would thst help? As it stands when someone gives you an item you would track it on yours. Unless you wanted your emotracker to show everyone's items/maps....?
17:10
Thst would seem like a bit much.
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JRJathome 2019-03-12 17:11
I believe the new notes feature is one thing that Emo plans to be able to link. So if you're playing co-op without a lua script, you can write things down for your partner.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-12 20:08
Also for example syncing things like entrance connections once entrance support releases, captured items, etc. There are LOTS of things it will help with in any co-op scenario, and as JR mentioned it also has restream applications, especially when combined with autotracking. There’s more too, but I’m not gonna get into that here.
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WillardJBradley 2019-03-13 16:38
what would it take to have an icon be an animated .gif file?
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EmoSaru 2019-03-13 20:09
It's possible, and has been on my list for a while, but images and media elements (which support animation) are handled differently in WPF and I need to evaluate the performance impact of the easy thing (converting everything to media elements) vs. the hard thing (specializing the behavior appropriately).
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JRJathome 2019-03-13 22:24
There's also necessity too. Like, for my LADX pack, having animated gifs would be nice for the instrument icons to match the game, but they currently work fine without being animated.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-13 22:28
Yeah. It's definitely getting added at some point - just a question of when and how.
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Natalie 2019-03-13 22:47
The... instruments... ..animate? I do not remember that, nor do I think it's actually strictly necessary for the purposes of a tracker. <.<
22:47
Beautification, sure.
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JRJathome 2019-03-13 22:48
Exactly
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Natalie 2019-03-13 22:49
It seems like something that should exist solely for broadcast views and stay far, far away from the user interface.
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Lechtansi 2019-03-13 22:55
Sure, but we are talking about the LADX instruments. Obviously an exception will be made
22:55
(I spent so much time playing LA as a kid still I know all the instrument melodies by heart)
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-03-14 23:35
Could we have a lock option on the tracker, making it unresponsive to menus (graying them I guess) and stuff until you click it again? I think that would solve the issue of contextual menus opening while playing.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-15 00:12
Is this specifically because you are a keyboard player who for whatever reason has their inputs bound to keys that do things in Windows, like tab, space, enter, etc.? (edited)
00:12
Or are you having context menus/etc. open for other reasons?
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EmoSaru 2019-03-15 00:22
Just FYI, any lock option I implement would ALSO be susceptible to keyboard activation unless I do something very wonky that would prevent Windows accessibility tools from interacting with it. I am loathe to do so without a very good reason.
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codemann8 2019-03-15 03:36
I think there possibly might be a missed scenario in accessing DP. It's showing yellow when I think it should be green. Lamp, book, glove, boots, and either rod should be enough to full clear, even without sword and bow. Unless this is a bug with the randomizer logic and you're just matching it? But it's strange because adding red cane makes it green as well, so I'm just thinking it's missing the rod cases. (edited)
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Lechtansi 2019-03-15 07:44
it might be that emotracker is not accounting for the fact that you can use fire rod to kill lanmo, but maybe it thinks you can with red cane
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stephen 2019-03-15 07:45
if your only offense is fire rod, you need additional magic
07:46
well, maybe not. 2 shots to light torches, 6 to kill lanmolas.
07:52
nope, 4 more fire rod shots to clear out the 4 popos in the 3rd room of desert 2
07:53
so if you don't have some way to kill every required enemy and refill magic, desert isn't necessarily clearable.
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JRJathome 2019-03-15 08:34
Logic discussion should go in #pack-support
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cheamo 2019-03-18 10:36
Not really sure where to put this or if it's been mentioned before, but just mousing over emo tracker uses a relatively huge amount of cpu
Image attachment
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Sal the Dragon 2019-03-18 10:48
This is the #suggestions channel, and I don't see what you're suggesting. Seems more like a #general-support kind of thing
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EmoSaru 2019-03-18 11:09
As SourLyme said, this is not really the place for it. That said, this is hit-testing, and you can observe a similar increase in the CPU usage of most relatively complex Windows programs while moving the mouse over an application window that accepts/processes mouse input. While the mouse is not moving, or not over the Window, you will notice that the CPU usage is effectively zero (assuming NDI is not active).
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Mihalo 2019-03-18 11:57
that screen is also hilariously devoid of information. like...14.8% of what exactly
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DigitalD 2019-03-24 12:16
Is there a way to mark hints on locations? Like I get a hint "a glove is above the poes" and I'd like to mark the item like I can a scout location, but putting a note on the location isn't quite the same as being able to mark what's on spectacle rock or something.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-24 12:19
Notes are the expected solution for this, and can capture items as well (there's an item capture on each note). What issues are you having with using notes for this?
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Natalie 2019-03-24 12:22
Having never used notes, I can only guess that you have to open the note to see the capture? That would be the only issue I could guess, other than the extra click required to open a note for editing in the first place.
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JRJathome 2019-03-24 12:22
My only criticism with the notes feature is there's no real way to keep them visible when the location is pinned.
12:22
Yeah, what Nat said.
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Natalie 2019-03-24 12:23
I'd wager a QoL improvement for showing a note-captured item alongside normal chest icons.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-24 12:23
Notes can capture any number of items
12:23
So you can see the UX dilemma here
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Natalie 2019-03-24 12:23
Only the first of such in the note, then
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EmoSaru 2019-03-24 12:24
There can be many notes, each with arbitrary numbers of items
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Lechtansi 2019-03-24 12:24
i keep a notepad open right next to my tracker with a few pre-determined notes that i can just fill in easily, like left side swamp, fire locked mire, boots location, etc. everything else i just take a quick note when i have a moment. if its a location i can skip but i dont have access too, ill just "show all locations" and pin it, so i can remember
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Natalie 2019-03-24 12:24
There does come a point where the user is noting too many things and/or inefficiently
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EmoSaru 2019-03-24 12:26
So, let's say I show all the noted items (edited)
12:26
Where all should that display?
12:26
In the pin (pin gets bigger, people already complain about screen size)
12:26
On the map (map gets harder to read in some areas)
12:26
How many should show?
12:27
One? "Why don't my items show"
12:27
All? "I can't read the map"
12:27
All but they're collapsed? "I can't tell what's there"
12:27
All but they're collapsed and can expand? "Moving my mouse makes locations freak out"
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Natalie 2019-03-24 12:28
I fear for the randomizer that absolutely requires so many notes with so many items.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-24 12:28
Even with reasonable numbers
12:28
I am expecting those issues
12:28
Many locations with one item noted are in some ways worse than one location with lots
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JRJathome 2019-03-24 12:29
I suspect you're going to run into some of that when you add entrance support as well, but then again I don't know what you're planning for that UI.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-24 12:29
Entrance support is handled differently
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Natalie 2019-03-24 12:34
I think the best solution to introduce people to would be "first item displayed per note" in the pin and only the pin; no collapsing and encourage efficient usage of notes
12:35
there will unfortunately always be someone who tries to overengineer a simple mechanism to instead write an autobiography
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JRJathome 2019-03-24 12:36
Could there be a separate 'notes' window that can stay open when you press a keyboard shortcut, kinda like the broadcast view? I know some people have limited screen space, but for others, it could be used to consolidate their notes, keeping each location separate.
12:36
A search bar could also potentially help if someone has a lot of notes.
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Natalie 2019-03-24 12:37
That's probably overengineering the solution on one hand, but also vaguely useful in its own right?
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stephen 2019-03-24 12:38
at that point, aren't you just bolting notepad.exe onto the tracker?
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Natalie 2019-03-24 12:39
-hastily types ascii of fire rod into notepad-
12:39
yeah this kind of sucks can i get a better solution
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EmoSaru 2019-03-24 12:42
I'm going to think about this for a while. I'm not sure that I like any of these solutions yet, so don't expect a quick update. This issue is something I'll be considering for sure though.
12:44
One thing that will happen in the next update is that locations with notes will stay visible on the map, regardless of accessibility. I'll be interested to hear how much that affects the need for this.
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Natalie 2019-03-24 12:45
As far as screen space is concerned, I'm curious to know what environments they're in and how much could be fixed with... different pack design
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stephen 2019-03-24 12:45
how many locations are there?
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JRJathome 2019-03-24 12:45
In that case, could notes use a different color icon? The red kinda blends in with red locations.
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stephen 2019-03-24 12:45
idk if there could be a "notes view" that has two tabs, one for each location, one for each item (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-03-24 12:46
@JRJathome Yes.
12:46
I'm not making a notes view like that right now.
12:47
And if I did, tabs would not be how I'd organize it.
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stephen 2019-03-24 12:47
tabs is what happens when network engineers suggest ui/ux
12:47
we dont know any better.
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DigitalD 2019-03-25 09:19
What might be nice is being able to treat any spot like you can a scouting spot (like spectacle rock) and mark what item is there if given that information via a hint (or spoiler log?)
09:20
Showing the item tagged with a note on the pinned location would at least make it easier to see
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Sal the Dragon 2019-03-25 09:23
If a hint is available for such a location, such in Hamsda's OoT pack, then it'll have the dotted line white square to mark what item is there. If you have the spoiler log, then why would you need to mark what's there?
09:23
So that's kind of already a thing
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DigitalD 2019-03-25 09:24
Not the case with ALTTP
09:27
There are hint tiles in ALTTPR that can tell you were a given item is, but most of the time there is no white dashed square for that location
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Sal the Dragon 2019-03-25 09:42
Since your suggestion is pack specific, I'd recommend tagging the pack creator so they know it's for them
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JRJathome 2019-03-25 09:55
Emo's not likely going to add it though. Pretty much any location in ALttP can be hinted at, which is why she added the 'notes' feature.
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stephen 2019-03-25 09:57
and most of the hints are vague
09:57
"x requires bombs" oh thank you, it can now be in 14 places.
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Sal the Dragon 2019-03-25 10:05
That too
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JRJathome 2019-03-25 10:12
Yeah. If you get a hint for a location you can't access yet, you can hold shift to temporarily show all locations so you can pin the one you want and add a note. For general hints that could refer to multiple locations, there's a note icon in the status bar at the bottom of the window. (edited)
10:14
Like this for example
Image attachment
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-03-25 11:00
Oh shi-. Shift provides a temporary F11?
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Lechtansi 2019-03-25 11:02
i couldn't get it to work
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JRJathome 2019-03-25 11:05
Seems to only work if you click on the map first.
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Hamsda 2019-03-25 11:53
not sure about clicking, but mouse needs to be hovering over the map for it to work afaik
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Zoph 2019-03-25 12:52
I just read last suggestions for notes and i come with a new suggestion that could do the trick Is that possible to create some "generic notes" with pictures that will be displayed on the map, something like : hookshot is fire locked in misery mire could be something like this (did it really quick XD ) (edited)
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12:55
And i got my own suggestion, i think it would be cool to have a favorite package menu to pin the ones we uses often which could avoid the multiples sub menus to select a tracker. Btw, you do a really great job with this tracker, i really love it, congratz 😃
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EmoSaru 2019-03-25 12:56
That particular style of map location badging is not something that I'll be pursuing, although that's not to say that there will be no form of image badging for map locations. As far as the favorite packages menu, I think that's a good idea, and is something I'll look into in the future. 😃
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Zoph 2019-03-25 12:58
okay 😃
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Hamsda 2019-03-26 10:41
Not sure how feasible this is, but when updating a pack would it be possible to diff the old and new files and warn users if they have an override to a modified file?
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EmoSaru 2019-03-26 10:53
It’s something I’ve considered, but is relatively low priority compared to other stuff. The only real challenge is that it’s very difficult to assign importance to changes, so if/when I do it, it won’t be “smart”.
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Hamsda 2019-03-26 11:07
yeah, just something i thought about when someone messaged me with an issue which was because of an override
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EmoSaru 2019-03-26 11:12
It will also potentially improve the ability to keep save files useful, but honestly I’m considering a repository markup solution for that, as it’s easier for devs to just declare compatibility. Overrides definitely will he helped though.
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Lechtansi 2019-03-26 11:26
hey emo, would it be possible to add a note to the upgrade notification, saying "this will break your saves" ? you could do it for packs and emo tracker, and would save a lot of headache from people not knowing
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EmoSaru 2019-03-26 11:33
For the app, I could. For packs, I’d say it’s kinda disruptive.
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Lechtansi 2019-03-26 12:21
maybe just a one time popup, when you first open the pack downloader
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Natalie 2019-03-26 12:27
Popups are bad in general, really
12:28
Try to limit their use
12:29
A simple bit of documentation should fix it, and if they're not reading the manual, then...
12:30
Interestingly enough, we have that documentation
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Lechtansi 2019-03-26 12:46
i mean, i've basically read everything posted in this discord since i joined 7 months ago and i still got bit by updating my packs mid-game and breaking saves
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Natalie 2019-03-26 12:47
Might consider re-reading #faq when major features come out
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Lechtansi 2019-03-26 12:48
see, thats literally the first time i've heard that i need to do that. its good advice, but i had no idea the faq was continually updated
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Natalie 2019-03-26 12:49
it's what passes for our documentation around here
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Lechtansi 2019-03-26 12:51
makes sense. maybe it could be a thing in the patch notes where it always points people to the #faq in discord for the latest info
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EmoSaru 2019-03-26 12:56
In my experience, that improves the support burden by approximately zero-percent.
12:57
If people know where information is kept, and don't seek it out, they're not going to do it just because I write "Make sure to read #faq" in text that most people already ignore anyway.
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Natalie 2019-03-26 12:58
No one ever reads the manual. It's a universal constant.
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Lechtansi 2019-03-26 13:03
makes sense
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Battle00333 2019-03-27 08:39
something that would be nice, for the entrance randomizers, would be if there was a way to mark dungeon entrances, either with some visible text etc. or icon. (the absolute best thing would be a way to link entrances, but that sounds like too much work for its own good chrisShrug ) (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-03-27 09:04
Entrance support is coming in the future. It’s been on my plans for quite a while.
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Zoph 2019-03-27 09:55
New suggestion that comes after the release of the v2.3.3.0 :) Like Tab / F11 that toggle all the locations, it could be a good idea to have a shortcut that toggle the display of badges
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EmoSaru 2019-03-27 10:25
The way that the expanding badge display works is not currently amenable to displaying all of them at once, and I'm not inclined to add that.
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Zoph 2019-03-27 12:09
okay ^^
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Deleted User 2019-03-28 17:46
Any plans to develop a phone app version? iOS or Android?
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EmoSaru 2019-03-28 17:48
#faq
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codemann8 2019-03-30 22:57
For chat hud rain animations, do you think it might be a good idea to have an option to automatically make a rain animation trigger when certain items are tracked. You could have a check for every item if there exists an image with a filename matching the code of the item. And perhaps a setting in the application json to disable auto animations if the user wishes to only manually trigger them (if they wish to use the same names as the item codes but not want them to auto trigger). Just a thought.
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EmoSaru 2019-03-30 23:41
That’s not something I intend to add. If I did anything, it would be to add a Lua API for triggering them, but even then, I’m not terribly interested in making things more disruptive for people.
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codemann8 2019-03-30 23:48
Or perhaps disable it by default, but have a setting to enable it? The Lua part would work just as well I suppose
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Sal the Dragon 2019-03-31 00:04
I'm with Emo, I feel it would just be more disruptive
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Zoph 2019-04-01 01:07
Hello again :p got a little suggestion : Add an action : 'select all' in the export override window I know that you can just copy paste the folder from the original pack but i do not think that all people will think about that.
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Natalie 2019-04-01 01:08
...why would you export an override for the entire pack
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Zoph 2019-04-01 01:09
Hmmm, if i want to change all pictures, but i do not want to touch the pack, i must click on all pictures
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EmoSaru 2019-04-01 01:10
As a general statement, the problems caused by people overriding more than they needed to are far worse than the problem of taking a little extra time to select things. It was a conscious choice on my part.
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Zoph 2019-04-01 01:11
seems legit 😃
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Hamsda 2019-04-05 16:43
I kinda wanna come back to a discussion we had like a week ago in #customization-support i think: being able to change location size in the map_location would be wonderful, mainly to make dungeons stand out more yes, it could get confusing for users, but that is sort of on the pack developers to not do that imo
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Sal the Dragon 2019-04-07 12:45
Suggestions for specific packs should still go in #pack-support right?
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Natalie 2019-04-07 12:52
Suggestions for packs that a pack developer can currently implement should probably go there, yes
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Tekky 2019-04-07 12:53
Keep in mind, if a feature doesn't exist for EmoTracker, our hands are kinda tied
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Deleted User 2019-04-12 04:26
Question: With development for Castlevania SOTN Randomizer, Is it possible to make map/item tracker for it?
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blasteg 2019-04-12 04:35
you'd need to find someone to make it, it could be you!
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deserteagle417 2019-04-12 06:32
^
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Deleted User 2019-04-12 11:00
🤔
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Gilgatex 2019-04-16 07:51
@Deleted User I'm working on a SOTN tracker
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Deleted User 2019-04-16 15:56
@Gilgatex your amazing! Let me know if there is anything i can do to be of help
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Wattsini91 2019-04-19 04:11
Can i suggest that maybe on the map, to use a colour for if you can do at least one thing in a location, even if you can't clean it out?
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Wattsini91 2019-04-19 04:19
never mind. that's the orange.
04:20
well can i suggest an option to turn all the blue dots red since they're both inaccessible, and the option to turn yellow sequence-breaking on/off?
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Hugo Maia 2019-04-19 06:22
Needs an enemizer tracker, had to fake having a bow so the tracker would let me check eastern as completed.
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Hugo Maia 2019-04-19 07:48
Also, needs support for setting which medallion is required to open TT or MM, currently the tracker only unlocks those if all 3 medallions are checked, unless I'm being stupid and missing something obvious.
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Ninban 2019-04-19 07:50
You can right click on the medallions
07:51
However don't feel stupid, it's not the most obvious thing
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EmoSaru 2019-04-19 09:38
Things like enemizer tracking are complicated and generally not worth it IMO, as they make the tracker worse to use in the vast majority cases. Turn on always allow chest manipulation, show all locations, and play beyond the tracker. Also, maybe figure out if what you want exists PRIOR to making declarative statements.
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Hugo Maia 2019-04-19 09:41
Turns out I'm just stupid and missed that option entirely, thanks
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JRJathome 2019-04-19 09:43
well can i suggest an option to turn all the blue dots red since they're both inaccessible
Blue locations turn red automatically once you mark them with an item. I'm not sure why you'd need them to start red.
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Natalie 2019-04-19 09:58
Being able to learn the item in a location is important, because you get to mark down whether you want it or not.
09:58
Disabling that feature is inhibiting your learning process.
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nature1996 2019-04-22 11:09
To solve the screen fitting problem, I would propose to add the ability to resize the item column indepedently from the map,or to add a scroll bar to the item collumn
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EmoSaru 2019-04-22 11:14
In-app resize handles is not something I currently have any plans to support, for a variety of reasons.
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Natalie 2019-04-22 11:15
I'd sooner argue that the map panel would benefit most from being scrollable, but that cuts off at-a-glance usability, which is bad.
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EmoSaru 2019-04-22 11:16
There are far worse implantation and usability concerns than that.
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CascadeHope 2019-04-29 12:42
This is just a minor suggestion... Since I'm not certain the complexity of the logic, or if it has been suggested before... But how difficult would it be to read in the Settings String for OOT, to determine the settings from there, rather than needing to track down the checks that you have disabled yourself and turn them off once they would become in logic?
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Kirito 2019-04-29 16:00
anyone have plans to make a tracker for FFV rando? (edited)
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stephen 2019-04-29 16:04
I haven't seen any discussions of it
16:04
wait
16:04
there is a reference in search to Doicim's FF5 tracker
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Kirito 2019-04-29 16:04
i just looked at the update and saw it on there
16:05
so we now have a ff1 and ff5 tracker now thx @EmoSaru
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EmoSaru 2019-04-29 16:05
Don't thank me - thank the pack authors
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Kirito 2019-04-29 19:01
still wanna thank you for all the hard work you do for us saru
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Deleted User 2019-05-01 14:05
I need to set aside some time to work a bit more on the ff1 pack next week. I want to have a map tracker variant of it
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Nicholas Steel 2019-05-03 06:20
Add some indication of whether or not you've saved the latest changes. Currently there's zero indication anything happens when you press Ctrl S for example (at least as far as I know). (edited)
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-05-03 09:52
Watch the appropriate folder and see if the saved data updates. 👍
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Nicholas Steel 2019-05-03 20:46
Sure I guess, but it'd be neat if the Title Bar could have the suffix - Unsaved Or some such added if a change has been made since it was last saved (Clear it from Title Bar when saving).
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TrisChandler 2019-05-03 20:48
... this may be a dumb question, but it is a sincere one: how common is saving? Most of the randos I play are raced, so it's not really something that people are looking for with that. (edited)
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Sal the Dragon 2019-05-03 20:51
It way easier to just watch the appropriate folder and check the date, or just press Ctrl+S more than one to make sure You're not going to be saving in the middle of a race, since you do it all in one sitting. Saving is more for casual playthroughs
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Natalie 2019-05-03 20:53
Just because people race randos doesn't mean all people race randos.
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Sal the Dragon 2019-05-03 20:53
Hence the saving feature
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Natalie 2019-05-03 20:53
There are casual players, just like there are people who drag a conversation on too long in the wrong channels.
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Nicholas Steel 2019-05-03 20:59
When racing you intend to complete the game in one sitting, so there's 0% need to save (unless you're living in an area prone to blackouts). When not racing being able to save changes is nice and appreciated, and it would be even nicer if there was any indication within the program of the Save actually being performed. Currently I perform a "Save As" to be sure of it before I quit the program. (edited)
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Nicholas Steel 2019-05-03 22:42
Another suggestion: Confirmation Prompt when quitting the program without having saved.
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EmoSaru 2019-05-04 01:07
I’m not going to add a confirmation prompt, and I’m not adding any more information to the title bar. I will consider adding a notification when a successful save occurs.
💾 3
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Nicholas Steel 2019-05-04 01:43
Thanks.
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Doctor Blue 2019-05-05 09:50
For the locations on the tracker where you can specify a visible item (ledges, torches, etc), it would be nice for Keysanity if you could put "Key" in there (or, generically, mark it as "yes I want to come back for this" so that it doesn't have to be either blue/unchecked or marked as found)
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EmoSaru 2019-05-05 12:00
There are generic small and big keys in the ui for capturing items if you’re using my keysanity variants.
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Doctor Blue 2019-05-05 15:24
So there are! User error, my bad. lackRNG
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Doctor Blue 2019-05-05 18:21
Would it be possible to add some kind of status result on file save? During normal save (using ctrl+s) there's no indication that a save was successful. Dunno how easy/hard it would be to add "saved to filename.json" in the status bar and have that appear for a second or two to confirm that a save worked. Right now I always Save As because I'm paranoid.
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EmoSaru 2019-05-05 18:25
Literally 7 messages above this, I responded to that. (edited)
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Doctor Blue 2019-05-05 18:26
Very good.
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Hamsda 2019-05-06 09:11
maybe a new little symbol for the pack manager indicating auto tracking would be nice? (if that isnt already a thing, I dont use the manager much 😛 )
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Tekky 2019-05-06 09:13
There is, I believe
09:13
Yeah, it's the little robot icon
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Hamsda 2019-05-06 09:13
ah, nice
09:14
not quite sure why people ask which pack has auto tracking then 😕
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Tekky 2019-05-06 09:14
🤷
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stephen 2019-05-06 09:14
The same reason "Please read #faq" is the most common phrase uttered.
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Hamsda 2019-05-06 09:16
youre probably right
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Tilt Controls 2019-05-11 20:18
@Hamsda Hey, for the ocarina of time tracker, there should be an option to put rupees, as well as maps and compasses, in blue spots
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JRJathome 2019-05-11 23:27
Rupees are already selectable for the capture spots. There's a silver rupee icon next to the keys icon in the capture grid.
23:28
I do agree that marking maps and compasses could be useful if playing with the 'Maps and Compasses Give Information' option.
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Hamsda 2019-05-12 00:43
oh yeah, good idea
00:43
got spots left anyways
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Tilt Controls 2019-05-12 01:38
it's possible that some suggestions may already be done because I forgot emo tracker doesnt give you a popup for individual game updates
01:38
maps and compasses should be on tho
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Natalie 2019-05-12 01:42
It turns the cloud icon green if any pack you have has an update, but there has been a previous suggestion for an indicator of some sort that the currently active pack has an available update.
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Tilt Controls 2019-05-12 01:42
would be nice
01:43
I assume the tracker accounts for randomized beans and individual grotto hints, yes?
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Natalie 2019-05-12 01:51
This is #pack-support content at this point, in all honesty.
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Hamsda 2019-05-12 01:53
yeah #suggestions is about the tracker itself, not pack content but yes, I usually keep the tracker up to date with dev
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Samael11 2019-05-12 08:42
I realize this may be pack questions, and this might be better targeted at nin and gilg, and this probably has been suggested before, buuuuuut...
08:44
would it be possible to have the item tracker and map tracker separate, configurable boxes? Kind of like how programs like WinAmp which comes to mind have the main control, then the equalizer and playlist which are all configurable in location on your screen
08:45
it would make it many times easier for people with less than ideal setups, and/or run fullscreen, to track items and locations
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-05-12 08:45
Sounds like a screen real-estate problem. Some games are just huge.
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Samael11 2019-05-12 08:45
since items would take one side of the screen and map the other
08:47
and this would be in relation to SM and Z3, most notable the combo randomizer
08:47
but it would work for them separately as well
08:48
(and yes, it is a screen real estate issue for me - I have a less than ideal set-up, with only one screen)
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Sal the Dragon 2019-05-12 09:53
Sounds like maybe something for #customization-support ?
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EmoSaru 2019-05-12 10:59
Dynamic docking controls are not something I have any intention to add at this time.
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Tilt Controls 2019-05-12 16:51
hey hamsda have you added a way to set prices for oot shopsanity?
16:51
so that way a shop check can be like red if you dont have the right wallet
16:56
also how come I can't get burning kakariko song to show up as green even though I can do it
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Sal the Dragon 2019-05-12 17:07
He hasn't added that because it's not a function. The rest of that should go in #pack-support , but you need forest, fire, and water medallions to get the song
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Tilt Controls 2019-05-12 17:22
okay got it
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Nicholas Steel 2019-05-12 17:34
@Tilt Controls See here for what most stuff requires: https://wiki.ootrandomizer.com/index.php?title=Logic
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Tilt Controls 2019-05-12 17:36
it's been so long since I've actually been able to get that that I forgot you needed forest too lol
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Natalie 2019-05-12 17:51
I imagine that's a question for the OoTR discord.
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P-Train 2019-05-13 16:11
One small autotracking suggestion: It would be great if the end game summary didn't disappear so quickly. I wouldn't object to it being a closeable window that remains until closed either 😃
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EmoSaru 2019-05-13 17:08
I have plans for improvements to notifications in general in the future (including a notification history which is how I intend to address this), but they’re relatively low priority at the moment.
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Zoph 2019-05-17 04:36
Do you think a broadcast view for pinned locations could be a good idea ?
04:38
if i remember well, pinned locations does already exists in the actual broadcast view, but the fact that the windows does not have a specific allocated space makes the capture of pinned items difficult
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EmoSaru 2019-05-17 10:38
You can already set a reserved amount of by doing an override of the broadcast layout, set the maximum number of pins displayed there, etc. There's no work to do here, and take any questions to #customization-support
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Zoph 2019-05-17 12:45
Okay :) Thanks 👌
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Synack 2019-05-21 07:43
Would it be possible for the auto-tracking to support choosing the usb2snes COM device? We had a use case where we wanted to do auto-tracking for multiple sd2snes devices on the same computer using multiple instaces of EmoTracker (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-05-21 09:05
It’s coming eventually, but it has to be supported at the connectorlib level, so it’s not entirely on me.
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Synack 2019-05-21 09:19
Thanks!
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Wattsini91 2019-05-21 18:10
@Hamsda Could you do a map tracker for the 3DS version of Master Quest where the map is mirrored?
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Hamsda 2019-05-21 18:10
very very very doubtful that will happen, sorry
18:11
since the map tracker is aimed at the randomizer
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Natalie 2019-05-21 18:18
It's... literally the same as normal Master Quest (except with the weird decision to mirror the game world)
18:18
so just switch all dungeons to MQ
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Wattsini91 2019-05-22 19:08
how bout a counter for Heart Pieces, Heart Containers, and an indicator for Double Defense?
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Sal the Dragon 2019-05-22 19:17
But why though? None of those things unlock any sort of progression whatsoever. Also, if this is about a specific then I'd recommend either putting it in #pack-support or tagging the pack creator or both
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Natalie 2019-05-22 19:18
#suggestions is for core application features and there's literally no point in tracking heart containers/pieces/double defense
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Doctor Blue 2019-05-22 19:19
What gives double defense? Unless they're talking about mail
19:19
(which is trackable)
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Natalie 2019-05-22 19:19
they're talking about Ocarina of Time
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Doctor Blue 2019-05-22 19:19
Oh
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Natalie 2019-05-22 19:19
this may come as a shock to you, but there are other randomizers out there
19:19
for other games
19:19
yes, other games exist too!
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Doctor Blue 2019-05-22 19:19
It does not! lackRNG
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Wattsini91 2019-05-22 19:21
@Sal the Dragon Neither does the ice trap counter, but that's still there
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Natalie 2019-05-22 19:23
ice trap counter is for comedic purposes
19:23
it doesn't need to exist
19:23
max health and double defense are always on screen though so
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Mertukan 2019-05-22 20:01
Why not just mod the pack if you want them?
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Wattsini91 2019-05-22 22:28
coz i'm not a programmer and i have no idea how
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Natalie 2019-05-22 22:30
#customization-support
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Zamira Badona 2019-05-23 18:30
I would like to have the opportunity to group the pinned location for entrance randomizer like it is already done for the specific entrances (i. e. Dungeons, House, Overworld) . Under the category „Overworld“ it should be possible to group it by own categories, for example: Wood ( with KF, LW, BRIDGE, SM), Zora (ZD, ZR, ZF, LH) and so on. Or just group it after each map. I hope this is possible.
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EmoSaru 2019-05-23 19:25
I have no intention of adding this at the current time.
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Wattsini91 2019-05-27 22:49
I'd like to see automatic pinning of all the green and orange dots if that's possible
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EmoSaru 2019-05-27 23:10
I have no intention of adding that, for a variety of reasons, including the fact that it's incredibly unlikely to do so in anything approaching the order that you actually want.
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Natalie 2019-05-27 23:34
I'd kind of like to see an explanation of exactly how you think your proposal will help you in any way. Have you tried pinning everything yourself to see just how cluttered and difficult to work with everything will become?
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Wattsini91 2019-05-28 18:55
Any new news about fitting all of the items and settings in the sidebar?
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Natalie 2019-05-28 19:00
That sure sounds like a pack-specific question.
19:02
It should be a surprise to absolutely nobody that any feature used in a tracker package is maintained by the pack author, nor should it need to be explained that queries about specific packs a) name the pack in question and b) be made in #pack-support
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Guaylabel 2019-06-14 07:05
just some petition see if it will be possible; any shortcut to allow chest manipulation (ex: F9 or so) like show all locations (F11)?
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EmoSaru 2019-06-14 11:06
I will look into adding a keyboard shortcut for that.
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Natalie 2019-06-14 11:14
Could it be folded into the temporary show-all hotkey, perhaps?
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EmoSaru 2019-06-14 14:57
IMO, it's best handled as a persistent stateful thing, so I won't be adding it that way.
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Math_Girl718 2019-06-14 22:19
it'd be great for the bonta multiworld thing for alttpr it'd be great if you could do things like /missing and interact with it in other ways (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-06-15 12:07
/missing is a client side feature, sadly, and its utility is largely eliminated by using the map tracker. If you’re wishing you had that command, use the map tracker. Additionally, I am expecting the landscape to shift significantly when the official lttpr multiworld happens, so I’m not planning any significant feature additions to my Bonta client unless they are required to maintain compatibility.
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Math_Girl718 2019-06-15 18:56
well the main reason i say that is dungeon item tracking
18:57
but makes sense i suppose
18:57
just wish there was a way to see which/how many chests in each dungeon have been checked with autotracker
18:57
that'd actually be nice
18:57
even if it's not a "how many unique items have you gotten" thing
18:59
otherwise yea it's mostly similar but that's a rather significant lacking feature cause i've seen more than enough people accidentally skip a chest in a dungeon and never realize
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fylion 2019-06-15 19:02
I mean at this point you're into general autotracker discussion, and chest counts in dungeon are a no on that front for non-MW reasons
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EmoSaru 2019-06-15 19:48
The tracker presumes competence on some level. At the very least, if you are using the map tracker, the stuff you could need to recheck is limited to dungeons. To my mind, that is more than sufficient.
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Hamsda 2019-06-16 17:09
I would like to bring up the suggestion for a setting to not auto pin on capture again. If I missed it and it is already implemented, don't mind me 😛
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EmoSaru 2019-06-16 18:21
Sorry, this one fell through the cracks. I will add it in the next version.
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Hamsda 2019-06-17 07:38
thank you zsrLove
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Deleted User 2019-06-21 14:51
Don't group the tower of hera big key chest with the lobby and front basement chests since it requires a small key and a fire source.
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EmoSaru 2019-06-21 15:04
As stated in response to your original message, I have no intention to change this.
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codemann8 2019-06-25 14:27
In Lua, I see ScriptHost:AddMemoryWatch that takes in one address and one length. Would you ever consider taking in a list of pairs? The trouble I'm running into is that I want to call into a new function when certain data changes but I'm needing to see data that exists in multiple places but not very close to each other. So, effectively, I'm forced to watch a very large memory segment instead of 2 smaller ones and the custom function is getting called much more than it needs to. This problem would be solved by use of a list of pairs. Any thoughts?
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EmoSaru 2019-06-25 16:44
The problem is solved by adding multiple memory watches. I have no plans to make a single memory watch cover multiple ranges.
16:45
You need to cache any data you need to handle cases like this. Multiple address range reads are never atomic regardless.
16:48
Additionally, if you want autotracking to work on sd2snes hardware, there is a practical limit (not that high) to the length of any one read. Under no circumstances do I recommend/condone overly large reads.
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codemann8 2019-06-27 10:07
Can you allow memory address 7e040c to be monitored? It is the memory location that tells which dungeon you are currently in, which is something I need for something I'm working on. ScriptHost:AddMemoryWatch("LTTP Dungeon", 0x7e040c, 1, updateDungeonFromMemorySegment) (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-06-27 10:48
I will look into it. No promises, so don’t count on it happening.
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Windothia 2019-06-29 20:07
So is the a map tracker for Metroid Prime 2: Echoes?
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-06-29 20:45
Try #general .
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Sicknasty 2019-07-15 11:10
i could be suggesting something old, but would it be possible to have the broadcast tracker able to be transparent or vertical as an option instead of just horizontal?
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LostThePirate 2019-07-15 11:10
#customization-support
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Edirkan 2019-07-24 23:22
Probably has been asked bafore, but how about a simple stopwatch for timing runs?
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-07-24 23:28
You can use LiveSplit or any other timer app that people use in their stream layouts.
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Tilt Controls 2019-07-31 02:18
🤔
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Ace of Spades 2019-08-02 19:17
For those of us that don't try to race, or really just in general, do you think it would be possible to add a "Do you want to save before exiting?" feature if one forgets to save their progress on the tracker? I was playing the Wind Waker randomizer and exited the tracker before realizing I had exited without saving, forcing me to try and remember what I finished (edited)
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MuffinJets 2019-08-02 19:18
It does exist, in fact it's set that way by default
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Ace of Spades 2019-08-02 19:18
It's not set like that on mine, is there a way to change it?
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MuffinJets 2019-08-02 19:20
gear in top-right -> Tracking -> Prompt when refreshing/closing
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Ace of Spades 2019-08-02 19:21
Huh, I had no idea it existed, thanks!
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MuffinJets 2019-08-02 19:25
Also I recommend using the web tracker for Wind Waker, the EmoTracker extension isn't updated
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Lechtansi 2019-08-02 20:49
the emotracker version was actually just recently updated, FYI
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MuffinJets 2019-08-02 20:52
How recent?
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Natalie 2019-08-02 21:08
https://discordapp.com/channels/386961931988369418/477172989356539915/582304289867956225
21:08
but everyone mutes #pack-announcements anyway so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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MuffinJets 2019-08-02 21:17
Thought you were talking about EmoTracker as a whole
21:17
But TIL that the WWrando pack got an update too
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Darkened5ky 2019-08-02 21:45
Yup
21:46
Thanks Natalie 👍
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Wattsini91 2019-08-04 01:32
Can I suggest a little onscreen counter that tells you overall how many individual checks in white, yellow, blue, and red remain? and then maybe a % bar that tells you your progress? (edited)
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MuffinJets 2019-08-04 01:36
This though
01:37
I'd love a counter like the wind waker web tracker that shows how many items are needed to beat the game, and how many checks there are left vs. how many you've done so far
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Wattsini91 2019-08-06 21:58
like, [number] checks are gettable, [number] checks are logic breakable, [number] checks are visible, [number] checks are ungettable. and count multiple checks as individual checks (i.e. count the 4 Mido chests as 4 checks, the 6 Light Trial chests as 6 checks, etc...)
22:00
also colour-code the numbers to match the check descriptions, white for gettable, yellow for logic breakable, blue for visible, red for ungettable
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Sal the Dragon 2019-08-06 22:00
well you just look at the map and see how many of each colored square are there 😛
22:00
to look at unobtainable checks, press F11
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Wattsini91 2019-08-06 22:01
but i wanna expand all of them and have it count each white, yellow, blue, and red check (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-08-06 22:07
Why?
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Wattsini91 2019-08-06 22:11
to get a decent idea of how far through a seed I am without manually counting some hundred coloured dots
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Natalie 2019-08-06 22:21
..generally you do that by having some general knowledge of the game's completion condition, and by using your human ability to estimate things
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EmoSaru 2019-08-06 22:27
So, to an extent I can understand the desire for a global counter
22:27
Why do you care about it being broken out by accessibility?
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Wattsini91 2019-08-06 22:32
it doesn't necessarily have to be by accessibility. it could be simplified down to just one number that says how many checks remain in total (accessible or not)
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RhynoBytes 2019-08-17 12:17
Is there any plan on Raspberry Pi support?
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EmoSaru 2019-08-17 12:27
For the tracker itself? Definitely not.
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MuffinJets 2019-08-18 09:28
You might be able to get it to run using Wine
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stephen 2019-08-22 11:27
the Pi is, at best, equivalent to a 2012/2013 desktop
11:28
adding in an emulation layer on top of it
11:28
not saying it's impossible, but i'd be impressed.
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Artemi☆ 2019-08-23 17:40
I don't suppose a phone app version is ever in consideration? It might be cool to have on side screen so one doesn't need to toggle back and forth. That's probably a totally new/different program, though, so I totally understand if not haha
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EmoSaru 2019-08-23 17:40
Definitely not in my plans for the future.
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rooslugs 2019-09-06 02:39
What about item count (total or remaining) based on map selections?
02:40
Not sure if that would venture beyond tracking and into the assistive domain.
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Rain 2019-09-06 02:51
maybe somebody builds a webversion or sth somewhen - I could definitely imagine that as a side project
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EmoSaru 2019-09-06 10:00
EmoTracker is my side project. I have a career.
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Rain 2019-09-06 11:05
nah I meant I can imagine somebody else doing it, including me
11:05
not the time rn though
11:05
nor permission
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EmoSaru 2019-09-06 11:06
Most importantly, the latter.
11:09
That, and any desire from my end to see it done at the present time.
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Rain 2019-09-06 11:10
hahaha yep
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MuffinJets 2019-09-06 17:01
What do you do as a career?
17:02
Curiosity's sake
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EmoSaru 2019-09-06 17:17
I've been working in the AAA games industry professionally since 1999. (edited)
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stephen 2019-09-07 12:19
I personally didn’t realize there were many games about roadside assistance.
🤣 5
🗞 1
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Revenant 2019-09-09 08:12
I'm loving the app very much, having only discovered randomizers for all my childhood games over the weekend, your app makes it so much easier to get back into the swing of it, with many years of a gap since then last time I played some of them. (edited)
08:14
My suggestion would be to add mouseovers names for the icons of items in the trackers, since some of them are so similar looking, or some people are still learning, it would be helpful. Also, sometimes you run into that item so quickly you didn't get to see what the Sprite looked like, and don't have a way to pull it back up in game (Metroid prime). Thanks again for all your hard work! (edited)
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JRJathome 2019-09-09 08:27
That's already a thing. Keep your mouse hovered over an icon for longer. It takes a while to appear because Emo doesn't want the tooltips to get in the way.
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Revenant 2019-09-09 08:28
Well there we go... Lol just didn't expect it to be such a delayed tool tip
08:28
:)
08:32
Although wave beam in MP seems to be called "buster badge"
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deserteagle417 2019-09-09 09:10
Probably copy-and-paste strikes again. I know I had that mistake in a few places
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Sal the Dragon 2019-09-09 09:44
@Revenant that's because you right click on the icons for the beams to indicate you picked up the beam combo
09:45
The combo being Wavebuster, is why its name is buster badge. Hover more to the left
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Revenant 2019-09-09 10:14
I hovered in a few spots, doesn't change the naming. Thx for that too though, been so long I forgot about the separate combo pickups
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Wattsini91 2019-09-14 00:20
@rooslugs I suggested something like that before, just something that counts how many accessible checks remain and how many checks left in the game.
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RETRObasti 2019-09-16 07:35
Hey @EmoSaru ... is it possible to become the Triforce Piece into the mark list?
07:36
and maybe... the 1/4 Magic in the tracker?
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EmoSaru 2019-09-16 09:48
1/4 magic is barely applicable at this point, and triforce pieces have an onscreen tracker.
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Fouton (PugHUD) 2019-10-01 09:53
Unknown if mentioned, and obviously gonna find its way to the bottom of that to do list if you like the idea to begin with, but some sort of way to indicate that the package youre currently using has an update (different indication from any package you own having an update)
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EmoSaru 2019-10-01 10:15
That is actually on my list. As a general statement, quickly finding packs that have updates and applying them is something that needs work.
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-10-01 13:12
I think it was also mentioned once to maybe stack the packs that do have updates at the top of the Package Manager window instead of the set order.
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EmoSaru 2019-10-01 13:29
That’s not my plan, but there will be a way to see these things quickly.
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2019-10-01 13:30
Neat.
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Cadenza 2019-10-06 14:33
Hi! I'd like to suggest a small addition to the alttpr tracker : with the lesser crystals requirement possible for GT, it is possible to beat Aga 2 without being in go mode. I think it would be interesting to be able to track Aga 2 as being killed or not. It is useful for viewers to know what is left to be done, the same way it is useful to know what dungeons have been done. 🙂
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EmoSaru 2019-10-06 15:58
I'll look into it at some point. The only reason that aga 1 is on the tracker at all though is that it has logical implications.
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JRJathome 2019-10-06 16:09
Cadenza, you might check out Fouton's PugHud as well. He's added a right-click to his Aga icon for tracking Aga 2. Only thing is his tracker doesn't have a map.
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deserteagle417 2019-10-06 20:34
You could also steal the item/images from Jaysee's pack (like I did) and add them in an override
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Pink Switch 2019-10-07 20:04
just take the aga 1 image and put a 2 over it
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EmoSaru 2019-10-07 20:05
No.
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davidv2002 2019-10-10 18:52
I have a somewhat odd question, is there any chance of this program being ported to Android
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cubesolver 2019-10-10 18:52
#faq
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davidv2002 2019-10-10 18:54
Sorry I missed that line. On a related note do you know if you can get wine running on Android
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EmoSaru 2019-10-10 18:56
That's not something we can provide support for here.
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MuffinJets 2019-10-21 16:32
A hotkey to pull up the developer console
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MuffinJets 2019-10-21 17:07
As well as the ability to add more than one capture_item slot
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EmoSaru 2019-10-21 17:47
I’ll put some thought into those
17:47
The latter is more complicated
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Rain 2019-10-21 22:40
dev console hotkey would be nice yeah; completely forgot about that problem after finding f5 for reloading without restarting everything 😄
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CareFreeBomb 2019-10-22 08:12
Suggestion: Stay fly
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MuffinJets 2019-10-22 08:35
Might be tough, I don't have wings
baronPUN 5
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Hamsda 2019-10-24 14:21
It would be neat if the multiworld log could autoscroll, so you always see the latest messages like the py client
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EmoSaru 2019-10-24 14:39
It's on my list. 👍
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Nicholas Steel 2019-10-24 15:18
With the auto scroll disabling if you aren't scrolled all the way down.
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EmoSaru 2019-10-24 15:21
I wouldn't do it if that's not the way it would work, thanks. That's why it wasn't in the first version.
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Natalie 2019-10-24 15:23
Most sane autoscrolls disable when you scroll back, Nicholas. Not disabling is the exception and not the rule these days.
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Wattsini91 2019-10-30 00:42
suggestion to hide all the sequence breaks on the map?
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EmoSaru 2019-10-30 01:19
I'm inclined not to do that, because sequence break is often overload in packs to indicate potential completion.
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Wattsini91 2019-10-30 19:43
damn. only coz i don't know most sequence breaks. the only ones i know (besides the Lens stuff) is the top of DC, Child Link Impa's house HP, and Adult Link windmill HP (edited)
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monnishue 2019-11-07 13:21
is there a smalttp auto tracker with map or is that not a thing yet?
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Nicholas Steel 2019-11-07 23:41
Not a thing yet.
23:41
Dunno if someone is working on one either (the current package with a map is no longer maintained).
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MuffinJets 2019-11-09 09:04
Adding the "Is the Package Manager down?" thing that was fixed with a manual update to #faq
👍 1
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EmoSaru 2019-11-09 10:13
done
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monnishue 2019-11-11 00:44
ty for letting me know Nich i'm still a little new to randomizers so every so often i get stuck on either trying to figure out what is in logic or getting past a hard part like my last seed where i was trying to do SM WR with only speed and morph and 2 energy tanks and reserves
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Cyberion 2019-11-23 08:57
Is it possible to have the savename shown in title bar or somewhere else? I overwrote a save file because I thought with resetting even the last save location is reset as well. Too bad that was not the case, another File --> Save overwrote the previous save -.- (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-11-23 12:17
The title bar is already very crowded. That said, the behavior you’re describing is unintuitive, and I’m going to reset the save file name when the tracker is reset.
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daman4567 2019-11-25 07:09
The map tracker plugin for alttp should have escape separated into sanc, back side, and dark rooms since the default settings now include open world
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deserteagle417 2019-11-25 07:15
The default setting of the tracker was always open. Escape is lumped together because it functions like a dungeon: 6 item chests, a small key, and a map. It makes more sense to keep them together. They're separated in keysanity, which makes sense there.
07:15
The front of escape, the dark room, the back 3, and sanc are all part of this. (edited)
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JRJathome 2019-11-25 15:00
^ The problem is that the map and small key for escape can be in any of those areas, so it doesn't really work to separate them.
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Kerigyl 2019-11-26 18:05
Is there a color blind setting built into the tracker that I'm missing? If not, I'd like to make that a suggestion 🙂
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deserteagle417 2019-11-26 18:09
The colors for the squares are customizable. Check #faq
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AmphibiousTrex 2019-12-01 17:10
A suggestion to allow the tracker to show if the seed is an all dungeons or pedestal seed: Along with the ?,1-7 on the Ganon sign, also have an option that says AD or PED. Maybe could even have one of the options be a triforce piece for triforce hunt. Although as was stated earlier, the triforce tracker shows up on the screen so you can see there what type of seed it is.
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deserteagle417 2019-12-01 17:23
Since those have no logical implications, that likely wouldn't happen. However, you can edit a pack to have those. I believe Willard did something like that
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rand(0) 2019-12-06 11:30
Would it be possible to have an option for disabling all keyboard hotkeys?
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ReggX 2019-12-07 18:16
Having used a button_popup inside a capture popup from a location pupup, I noticed that clicking outside the popups only closes the topmost popup. In the mentioned example it would take 3 clicks to close all popups. I don't consider that behaviour a bug, since closing only a "single layer" is useful at times. But other times it isn't. So I propose keeping that behaviour when left clicking empty space, but changing right click behaviour to close all popups when right clicking empty space. (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-12-07 19:12
Nesting of this sort was certainly not expected, but all the behavior of the popup is also implemented "locally". I'll look into something in the future, possibly, but it's extraordinarily low priority to look into improving nesting like this.
19:13
As far as disabling all keyboard hotkeys, it's possible, but I'm curious to know why you're asking for it.
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DoubleDerp 2019-12-09 05:47
is there enough demand to justify making a version of the alttp tracker that would allow you to mark what bosses are where for boss shuffle
05:47
i.e. marking trinexx in IP
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deserteagle417 2019-12-09 08:32
I've thought about doing it before, but then decided it was more work than the benefit I would get from it. You could probably do it without too much trouble
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wolfman2000 2019-12-10 16:45
I've done that before on a non emotracker tracker. Can't fully say it was the most popular feature. Still, would be a nice challenge to see how well the logic works.
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Nicholas Steel 2019-12-27 04:55
If a dungeon is Yellow, you can dip it to reach some locations... or some of the locations in that dungeon are out of logic. It is ambiguous which is meant until you actually visit the place. Therefore I propose making the colour Orange cover partially clearable locations including partially clearable dungeons and reserve Yellow for out-of-logic/glitch access to locations, eliminating ambiguity of what is meant by the colours. But... then yellow and orange colours I guess become incompatible with each other... hmmm. Like you'd lose the ability to indicate if a location is both partially clearable as well as contains out of logic checks unless you can do half 'n' half colours. (edited)
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Rain 2019-12-27 05:01
that's up to the pack creators, and afaik most use it like you described:
Orange cover partially clearable locations including partially clearable dungeons and reserve Yellow for out-of-logic/glitch access to locations
05:01
additionally, it might be that a dungeon fulfills the requirements of both yellow and orange.
05:02
oh right, you covered that in your last sentence nvm (edited)
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ReggX 2019-12-27 05:09
If a dungeon is yellow, then every section in it is clearable (either through normal means or through sequence breaks). As soon as you have a single out of logic and not sequence-breakable section inside a location, the whole location will become orange.
05:10
It's impossible to have a yellow location with an unclearable section (as long as the pack dev didn't make a access rule mistake) (edited)
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MuffinJets 2019-12-27 10:14
Orange is mixed accessibility Meaning it can have two checks of any kind, one of which is checkable (blue) and the other is inaccessable (red) (edited)
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MuffinJets 2019-12-27 10:25
I could be using it wrong, but I use yellow for out of logic locations, but also if you have the ability to enter a dungeon and get at least one check, but not fully clear it
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ReggX 2019-12-27 10:45
Looking at it, yeah, kinda. There is only binary logic for the dungeons, either you can either enter it or clear it. The chests in the dungeon itself seem to have no logic at all.
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EmoSaru 2019-12-27 11:52
That is entirely up to the pack creators.
11:52
Ultimately, it is a balance between usability and accuracy.
11:53
I could perfectly model the accessibility of every chest in LTTPR, but it would be way worse for usability, especially for experienced players.
11:53
For my LTTP pack, I expect players to learn the game.
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Wattsini91 2019-12-27 20:28
What if they made the dots green for dungeons with at least one accessible check?
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EmoSaru 2019-12-27 20:29
That would be just as misleading as the current situation.
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Wattsini91 2019-12-27 20:45
then you could open up that location, see what's in white text, go do it, then the dot goes red or whatever until you find the items you need
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Aeralis 2019-12-27 20:48
Personally, I like how the current use stops me from entering Ice Palace without the Hammer. As an example.
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Wattsini91 2019-12-27 20:49
i mean for OoTR
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Wattsini91 2019-12-27 20:59
but yeah maybe add an option in emotracker to set how you want it to deal with multiple checks in a location.
21:02
or add each dungeon map to the top bar, so every dungeon check has its own dot
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EmoSaru 2019-12-27 22:55
It’s up to the pack developer to decide how to specify this stuff. I’m not making any app level changes for this.
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AliceSteel 2020-01-01 18:52
Having multiworld LttP tracking sync tracking of all worlds to all players so everyone can see what everyone has and/or one person can show the items for everyone in the multiworld on their stream without needing to somehow capture the tracker from the other players' screens would be nice.
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Sal the Dragon 2020-01-01 18:55
Easy solution is to just watch everyone's streams with a multitwitch or something, plus players communicate with each other who has what anyways
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AliceSteel 2020-01-01 18:56
That assumes everyone is streaming separately.
18:57
That doesn't work if only one of the two players is actually streaming and using Discord screen sharing to capture the other player's gameplay.
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EmoSaru 2020-01-01 20:12
If I ever get back to implementing networked tracking, it could happen. Beyond that, I'm not planning on doing it specifically for multiworld. It's a neat idea, but my personal opinion is that there's far better stuff to put on your stream than other peoples' trackers, even in a multiworld.
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AliceSteel 2020-01-02 02:24
Since the multiworld already knows when the other people pick up items for you and when you pick up items for them would it be something you could set up tracking for everything easily enough if the multiworld was adjusted/improved to announce all items instead of just the ones for other players than the one who collects them?
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WillardJBradley 2020-01-02 02:37
I like playing the game, not reading
02:37
you think im gonna read text every time someone gets an item if I'm doing a 20 person multi
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EmoSaru 2020-01-02 02:38
The server knows what everybody has sent everybody. It doesn't know what everybody has, and the client definitely doesn't know that.
02:38
I'm not modifying the server to do this.
02:38
And I'm certainly not modifying EmoTracker to work with a modified version of a server that's going to eventually get obsoleted. (edited)
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Orphis 2020-01-03 20:36
@EmoSaru I know the multiworld tracker currently supports "ws://uri" hosts, but could you also allow "wss://uri" for SSL websockets?
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EmoSaru 2020-01-03 20:39
I will look into it, but not until after GDQ and even then it will be very low priority.
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Orphis 2020-01-03 20:40
That's all you need basically, the Websocket-Sharp library should handle the rest automatically
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Orphis 2020-01-03 21:03
FYI, the goal is to support URLs like "wss://service/GameName" in a hosted environment
21:03
The URI part is fine, it's just the protocol right now that needs updating
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EmoSaru 2020-01-03 22:46
Yeah, I get it, but with the official multiworld in development you have to understand that I’m balancing the overhead of developing and releasing a patch for something that’s likely to die anyways. Also, next time you post something that could be interpreted as disassembled code here instead of DM’ing me, it’s not gonna be ideal. (edited)
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Orphis 2020-01-04 02:33
C# is basically human readable nowadays, so it shouldn't matter that much.
02:34
And yes, it's a small patch, doesn't warrant a new release by itself, but could bu bundled with any other. And that's the only change I'm asking for
02:36
As it is now, official multi world is a unicorn anyway, so I wouldn't hold my breath for it
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MuffinJets 2020-01-07 22:22
When using "swap left/right", having the progress through the tracker not be reset would be nice If that's not something that can be changed, then have the prompt warning the user that show up when "Prompt when refresh/close" is turned on
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EmoSaru 2020-01-07 22:49
I’ll add the prompt. Changing that setting requires a pack reload. Thanks for pointing that out,
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Boy Lag 2020-01-10 15:15
i dont know it this is the place to do this and if its not I apologize. But I was wondering if anyone considered making a tracker for AM2R (another metroid 2 remake)
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deserteagle417 2020-01-10 16:08
You could be the one to do it! At least a few of us pack creators had no prior experience before making them, I think
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Boy Lag 2020-01-10 16:15
honestly i have no idea where to start. but I could give it a look.
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deserteagle417 2020-01-10 16:21
Take a pack that looks similar to what you have in mind and just poke around it. See how things seem to work and you can start turning it into your own! #customization-support is where you'll find help if you need it!
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cubesolver 2020-01-10 17:57
That and Emo’s LTTP pack is the main point of reference
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Hamsda 2020-01-15 11:19
i've had this issue come up a few times with users of my pack: always allow chest manipulation + hidden visibility sections doesn't play too well for example i am hiding certain sections on spots because say the respective shuffle option is off. but if folks use AACM, the hidden sections will get cleared off anyways, which in some cases has unintended side effects. i'd suggest that sections that are hidden will not get cleared if the parent location is right clicked. (edited)
👍 3
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EmoSaru 2020-01-15 11:38
Good suggestion, and it’s certainly an unintended side effect. I will address this in the next patch.
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Hamsda 2020-01-15 13:30
thank you
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Alaszun 2020-01-15 13:33
👍
13:34
I'm the #1 whiner at hamsda for his pack doing this 😄
13:34
Because I need to use always allow to set certain hints
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LostThePirate 2020-01-15 13:45
Oh, I've complained, too... "Oh, I cleared Anju, and now it thinks I have Cojiro, great."
13:46
So I also would appreciate if this gets addressed.
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EmoSaru 2020-01-15 14:41
Yep. There's an update coming, likely later this week (probably the weekend), and I'll make sure this is included. Thanks for the reports!
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LilPup 2020-01-15 14:51
Can you add a Mac Version? Or is that too difficult
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EmoSaru 2020-01-15 14:56
Not going to happen any time in the foreseeable future. See #faq (edited)
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LilPup 2020-01-15 14:57
OK
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MuffinJets 2020-01-16 11:53
@Hamsda A tiny suggestion for your tracker The lower Zora's River Heart Piece can be observed if you're an adult, and not everyone knows the setup for the jump over there Adding a capture to that check would be nice
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LostThePirate 2020-01-16 12:13
^
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Hamsda 2020-01-17 03:25
sure barbShrug
03:25
setup is piss easy
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Pink Switch 2020-01-17 12:08
what about the upper one
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LostThePirate 2020-01-17 12:29
It's pretty hard to do ESS turns on a 360 controller, lol, so being able to Capture rather than Note would be appreciated. The upper HP setup is pure basic movement and retargetting, but I can't ever get the Lower one down, unfortunately.
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Hamsda 2020-01-17 12:52
except you dont need ESS turns
12:52
and they are def doable on a 360, considering I use one
12:52
but yeah, will add a capture for both
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2020-01-17 15:59
The custom icon locations; would they include disabled image mods or a different asset for accessible/inaccessible? You did mention a more-comprehensive implementation and in a version down the road. Lots of us excited to see what your idea is. :D
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EmoSaru 2020-01-17 17:10
To clarify, my plan was for locations to remain locations, although custom icon support for them is a fine request. The request I was talking about though is actually placing items (and other things) on the map directly. (edited)
👍 2
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2020-01-17 18:30
Ooh, neato.
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Flintlock 2020-01-19 08:04
Hello and thanks for making the tracker! I have one small suggestion: don't automatically make a Start Menu folder on every update. I don't use folders in my menu; I prefer to have the programs in the root directory. This means that every time the tracker updates, this folder, which I don't need, is recreated. Many installers have a checkbox that allows users to choose whether to create shortcuts and that could work in this case too.
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👍 3
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MuffinJets 2020-01-19 09:45
This, so hard ^^^
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Nicholas Steel 2020-01-20 02:24
I dunno if it already does this but when updating a package there should be a confirmation prompt warning that Saves will become incompatible if you proceed, with an option to never show the confirmation prompt again. (edited)
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MuffinJets 2020-01-20 08:22
It doesn't, but it's not a bad idea
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2020-01-21 19:19
Is there a library allowing for animated image usage? Or is that something that the design is avoiding? (edited)
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AliceSteel 2020-01-22 17:03
Feature Suggestion: Uninstall/Remove Packages
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EmoSaru 2020-01-22 17:34
I am somewhat loathe to add any functionality to the application that deletes files off of your hard disk unless absolutely necessary. It’s easy to do, but sufficed to say it opens up some unfortunate possibilities.
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AliceSteel 2020-01-22 18:04
At the very least an info button on "How to uninstall packages" and a shortcut to the relevant directory in the package management window would be nice.
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Wylem 2020-01-26 19:12
minor issue: "prompt when refreshing/closing" does not prompt when changing to another package
19:14
(also, personally I'd prefer that the prompt to save option defaults to on)
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EmoSaru 2020-01-26 19:23
Noted
19:24
I didn’t add it on switching to another package
19:24
Because that’s a big ass action with no keyboard shortcut
19:24
So I’m not sure how you do it on accident
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Wylem 2020-01-26 20:38
yeah that's fair, it just surprised me when it didn't ask
20:38
since I'm used to most software being overly paranoid about that kind of thing
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MuffinJets 2020-01-27 11:22
Granted that's usually a sign of good UI Assuming the worst out of the end user
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EmoSaru 2020-01-27 11:23
there's a limit (edited)
11:24
and I weigh the effort and bug potential involved in any change against the support burden the issue it fixes creates
11:24
and as yet
11:24
no dinguses have required 20 minutes of support for that (edited)
11:27
I'm perfectly happy to make most changes people want though, so long as it's worthwhile. My hourly rate is $150, and there is a minimum of 2 hours billed per contract.
11:27
emosarGuao
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MuffinJets 2020-01-27 11:28
Tempting offer
11:28
$300 for 20 mins of support
11:28
:kappa:
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Cheezinator 2020-02-11 17:52
have loved EmoTracker for a long time, and honestly the only improvement I could think of would be having it remember window size and position between quitting and re-opening
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EmoSaru 2020-02-11 17:57
I specifically do not do that currently for 2 reasons 1) window size is pack dependent, and conflicts could arise 2) windows is fucking dumb when it comes to the coordinate system when multiple monitors are used, and changes in display topology can result in windows with saved layout data appearing offscreen and being difficult or impossible to restore
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MuffinJets 2020-02-11 19:32
I have first-hand experience with the latter ^
19:33
Had to uninstall and reinstall programs in order to reset defaults
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deserteagle417 2020-02-11 20:57
My favorite is when Windows decides to yeet an open window out of existence and you have to restart the program to get it back. Happens all the time to me...
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Darkened5ky 2020-02-11 22:06
Windows + Shift + Arrow Key is your friend for that, unless windows is really dumb and actually stops running the program
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Nicholas Steel 2020-02-12 03:47
I don't have the same experience as you DarkenedSky. Windows Explorer and Steam only respond to Win-Shift-Down which toggles from Maximized > Windowed > minimized (edited)
03:47
And then no arrow key restores it and no arrow key moves it around.
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AliceSteel 2020-02-12 04:11
Do you have multiple monitors @Nicholas Steel? I'm pretty sure that key combo is to move a window between monitors.
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Nicholas Steel 2020-02-12 04:13
OH, I misunderstood them then lol. I figured the behaviour was something along the lines of Shift Right-clicking the program on the Task Bar and choosing Move. (edited)
04:15
Image attachment
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AliceSteel 2020-02-12 04:49
Don't know for sure but I'm just making an educated guess based on the context.
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Aeralis 2020-02-12 09:13
Windows + Shift + Right/Left is for sending windows to other displays, yes.
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Spleebie 2020-02-12 09:54
You can also use Alt+Space, then M, then any arrow key to bind the active window to your mouse cursor to get it back in view. (edited)
👍 1
09:54
Which is heckin' dumb, thanks Windows.
👍 2
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Darkened5ky 2020-02-12 10:03
Ah, I didn't think about that possibly being a multiple display thing. My b
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Nicholas Steel 2020-02-12 13:43
That's... the same as Shift Right-Clicking the program on the task bar Spleebie, nice to know but only useful if the program disappears from the taskbar too for whatever reason which I imagine isn't a common thing.
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EmoSaru 2020-02-12 13:57
Yeah, so, obscure button combinations do not help decrease the support burden associated with doing it.
13:57
Having an answer for the problem doesn't reduce the number of times that answer has to be regurgitated, and that's for people who even seek out the help.
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Natalie 2020-02-12 13:59
They're good buttons to know, but there's really no reason for this discussion to continue for this long in this channel anyway. 🤔
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Nicholas Steel 2020-02-12 14:16
True EmoSaru, both methods aren't very intuitive (though left clicking the programs icon in the title bar to open that menu has been a thing since Windows 95). (edited)
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MuffinJets 2020-02-12 14:22
windows-support channel when
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EmoSaru 2020-02-12 14:26
never, I have no desire to be microsoft support, or snes9x support, or bizhawk support, or <insert game name> randomizer learning support
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Spleebie 2020-02-12 15:20
@Nicholas Steel shift right-click doesn't always work andyShrug . Point is, Windows is dumb and Emo is justified.
👍 1
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Morphyum 2020-02-13 02:52
Point is we are weighting you having to move a window vs a lot more support work for Saru ^^
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MuffinJets 2020-02-13 08:51
I was sarcastic when I said windows-support lol
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EmoSaru 2020-02-13 09:47
Folks, let’s stop discussing this here. It’s no longer a suggestion.
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WillardJBradley 2020-02-13 23:08
is it possible to add a section on a tracker to show your most recent items acquired?
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WillardJBradley 2020-02-13 23:31
like, if I mark firerod on my tracker, a firerod will automatically appear in the new section.
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JRJathome 2020-02-13 23:35
Tired of people asking what you got 5 seconds after you got it?
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WillardJBradley 2020-02-13 23:35
: )
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AliceSteel 2020-02-13 23:43
Suggestion: Casual mode setting for LttP tracker which enables autotracking for dungeons but requires the user to input a valid seed, email address, and a screen name which will be reported to the LttPR Race crew as pre-self-disqualification from any races using that seed in order to activate the mode.
peepoClown 1
23:44
(Or just any sort of option to be able to autotrack dungeon items for casual players.)
peepoClown 1
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WillardJBradley 2020-02-13 23:49
that suggestion goes well outside the scope of this discord
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AliceSteel 2020-02-13 23:56
How so? That pack is made and maintained by EmoSaru.
peepoClown 1
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WillardJBradley 2020-02-13 23:57
thats decision is made by the alttpr community
23:57
there's a reason why autotracker is in its current limited state
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Natalie 2020-02-13 23:57
The LttPR community says no autotracking of dungeon checks. Go convince them, not us.
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AliceSteel 2020-02-13 23:58
No, it's made by EmoSaru.
peepoClown 1
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WillardJBradley 2020-02-13 23:58
I'm not gonna repeat myself
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Natalie 2020-02-14 00:00
There will not be a public-use autotracker for LttPR that allows auto-tracking dungeon checks, because that is considered cheating by the LttPR community. This is not the place to convince anyone otherwise.
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AliceSteel 2020-02-14 00:01
Only way the community can "make that decision" is if they force the devs of the randomizer itself to make it impossible for any tracker to detect how many of those chests have been opened or something like that imposing actual technical impossibility. Otherwise it's entirely on the creator of the autotracker to make the decision.
peepoClown 1
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WillardJBradley 2020-02-14 00:02
regardless of what you think, this is a discussion that should be brought up in the ALTTPR discord, not here
00:02
and you'll get the same answer there. (edited)
00:03
it's just not gonna happen. and Emo herself has stated multiple times that its up to the ALTTPR community to decide. (edited)
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AliceSteel 2020-02-14 00:08
I'll drop it for now with this last statement of fact: Regardless of what YOU think this is a decision that is entirely on EmoSaru. Not some mythical "ALTTPR community".
peepoClown 1
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WillardJBradley 2020-02-14 00:09
whatever you say
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Natalie 2020-02-14 00:11
"mythical"
00:11
I'm not getting paid enough for this.
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EmoSaru 2020-02-14 00:17
Hey
00:17
@AliceSteel
00:18
This shit has been settled for quite a while
00:18
Not sure if you noticed, but last time it became an issue, it was a giant pain in the ass
00:18
The tracker does what it does because it's where we've all landed
00:18
You've brought this up a bunch
00:18
Trust me when I say, you're barking up the wrong tree.
00:19
In case you haven't noticed, my name is red in the rando discord. (edited)
00:19
I talk to people.
00:19
I'm friends with people.
00:19
And I have no desire to cause trouble for myself or others, regardless of whether something SHOULD cause trouble for them.
00:19
So.
00:19
Let's drop it.
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AliceSteel 2020-02-14 00:20
Suggestion: Don't enforce your personal politics and/or rules on packs made by other people.
peepoClown 1
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EmoSaru 2020-02-14 00:21
Was I enforcing my personal politics just now?
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AliceSteel 2020-02-14 00:23
It's come to my attention that EmoTracker is designed to intentionally not function if a pack is designed to track dungeon chests. Also that such is enforced via an always-online type DRM.
peepoClown 1
00:24
Seems pretty clearly motivated by your personal politics/favoritism/rules.
peepoClown 1
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EmoSaru 2020-02-14 00:24
Okay.
00:24
I understand where you're coming from.
00:24
Now
00:24
Let me explain how the real fucking world works
00:24
I wrote a piece of software
00:24
Which works the way I intend it to
00:25
I designed the way this part of it works in concert with other people whose opinions actually matter
00:25
Now
00:25
The other thing to know about the real world
00:25
Is that this is my Discord server
00:25
and you seem to be under the rather impressive delusion that I have any obligation whatsoever to listen to what you have to say
00:25
So please
00:26
Tell me more about my politics so I can decide whether to put you in the no-no corner or just ban you
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AliceSteel 2020-02-14 00:27
I miss when I could convince myself that there were such things as common decency or logic in anyone with any resemblance of power in this world...
🤦 1
🤡 1
peepoClown 1
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Mikan 2020-02-14 00:27
that's deep bro
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EmoSaru 2020-02-14 00:27
At what point in this discussion were you employing common decency?
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apathyduck 2020-02-14 00:28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ7oqmikZDQ
Atlantic Records
Simple Plan - Untitled (Official Video)
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StormRider 2020-02-14 00:28
Yeah, that's it, man. Fight the power. 🙄
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AliceSteel 2020-02-14 00:29
The entire time by resisting the urge to use proper terminology for certain individuals.
spinning_think 1
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peepoClown 1
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Natalie 2020-02-14 00:29
I'd just like to mention that logic and reason are completely lost on this user, who has been witnessed multiple times in other locations demanding that changes be made to suit their incredibly narrow and unchangeable view.
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EmoSaru 2020-02-14 00:29
Okay
00:29
So
00:29
New plan
00:29
There are a variety of excellent web-based trackers for ALTTPR
00:30
I suggest you go figure out how to add autotracking to one of them
00:30
Then you can make it do whatever you want!
00:30
And I'll enjoy when Ack makes a funny youtube video about you
00:30
In the meantime tho
00:30
I think we're done here.
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apathyduck 2020-02-14 00:30
https://frinkiac.com/video/S05E15/7j9IDVy5muouyuYqfdNoeXGSGuI=.gif
Embedded image
🤔 2
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EmoSaru 2020-02-14 00:31
Thanks for playing folks.
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WillardJBradley 2020-02-14 00:31
the day is saved \o/
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apathyduck 2020-02-14 00:31
Rampant Twattery is my 90's British Punk band name
👍 3
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StormRider 2020-02-14 00:32
Jesus, what the hell was that even
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apathyduck 2020-02-14 00:32
Rampant Twattery
☝️ 2
00:32
obvs
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Natalie 2020-02-14 00:32
This is apparently the logical extension of "please remove wall jumping from Super Metroid logic because I think it's hard"
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EmoSaru 2020-02-14 00:32
Alright kids
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Natalie 2020-02-14 00:32
¯\(ツ)\/¯
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EmoSaru 2020-02-14 00:33
I've had a busy night in the meme farms
00:33
And then this kid made my day
00:33
Literally
00:33
I'm so happy
00:33
But now we can all move on
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Natalie 2020-02-14 00:33
We don't have to go home, but we can't stay here, right?
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EmoSaru 2020-02-14 00:33
Yep
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WillardJBradley 2020-02-14 00:33
cheers emo
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StormRider 2020-02-14 00:33
But I don't want to move on just yet, I'm still laughing
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apathyduck 2020-02-14 00:33
Suggestion: Add autotracking for twats so we can tell right away when they join this server
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Natalie 2020-02-14 00:34
... "mythical LttPR community"... holy shit...
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EmoSaru 2020-02-14 00:34
@apathyduck Now that's a suggestion I can get behind.
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WillardJBradley 2020-02-14 00:37
so, since my suggestion/question got buried by that nonsense.
is it possible to add a section on a tracker to show your most recent items acquired? like, if I mark firerod on my tracker, a firerod will automatically appear in the new section.
 (edited)
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EmoSaru 2020-02-14 00:37
It's certainly possible.
00:38
I'll look into it, but there's a tricky bit in that item types work differently.
00:38
I wonder if "recently modified items" would be better?
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WillardJBradley 2020-02-14 00:39
that was my concern, like marking a crystal shouldn't add it to the recent items
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Natalie 2020-02-14 00:39
That's my initial thought, but depending on if things need to be cycled through or if they should be filtered out due to e.g. medallions that unlock which area
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EmoSaru 2020-02-14 00:39
With custom Lua items, technically "acquired" isn't even a concept that exists across the board.
00:39
So there are packs with which this wouldn't work.
00:39
And people have used items in other creative ways, like as settings and such
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WillardJBradley 2020-02-14 00:39
I'd currently just use it for alttpr
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EmoSaru 2020-02-14 00:40
Which would also run afoul of this, potentially.
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Natalie 2020-02-14 00:40
you could end up with lots of unhelpful data in the recents list
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EmoSaru 2020-02-14 00:40
Regardless, I'll think about it
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WillardJBradley 2020-02-14 00:40
👍
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EmoSaru 2020-02-14 00:40
If there's a sane way to build a useful list, the rest is easy.
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Solski 2020-02-14 04:33
I did my part and tagged every recent post with the always responsibily used reaction.
YuTangClan 1
04:33
feelsgoodenough
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fylion 2020-02-14 06:26
That list would be cool to have
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Hamsda 2020-02-14 06:31
maybe items could get a flag similar to capturable (or whatever it was) like show_in_history or something
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Acktheboker 2020-02-14 06:55
FYI I didn’t see anything worthwhile to compile for a YouTube video so I’ll pass my royalty rights to anybody else who is up to the task. -Acktheboker
👑 1
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DukeFireBird 2020-02-14 08:54
"You need to show its possible" - uh, apparently they have been living under a freaking rock. There is a reason its DISABLED. FFS
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EmoSaru 2020-02-14 09:43
@Hamsda That’s a good idea. It’s slightly unfortunate that it probably has to be opt-in, but I think that might be the best way.
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Dudude Dude 2020-02-14 10:29
If possible I think adding a whitelist to the new layout element that'd be added for this might be better, just for user customizability. Always preferable if someone making overrides doesn't have to overwrite the actual items, just the layouts.
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EmoSaru 2020-02-14 10:41
That’s also possible, although a bit more complicated.
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Nicholas Steel 2020-02-23 08:03
Add a info field to the Package Manager indicating which version of a Randomizer/game that a Tracker Package targets. (edited)
08:03
That way people can see that the OoTR package maintained by DarkenedSkye & Spleeble is out of date/doesn't correlate with the latest version of the Randomizer for example. This idea originates from flagrama#0001 on the Ocarina of Time Randomizer discord. (edited)
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Darkened5ky 2020-02-23 09:15
Yeah, spleebie and I are discussing what to do about that pack. It's probably either going to become items-only or we'll just unpublish it altogether (edited)
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2020-02-23 10:34
Some pack devs put it in the title which can change as the matching uses the ID string instead.
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EmoSaru 2020-02-23 11:50
I could consider adding more metadata fields on the package manager if people really want them, but it’s up to the package authors to populate them. So, I still can’t guarantee that they are accurate or meaningful, and they’re all likely to be optional.
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flagrama 2020-02-23 16:32
not populating and updating them while other pack makers do should just naturally cause people to gravitate towards the accurately represented ones, so being options shouldn't be an issue
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EmoSaru 2020-02-23 16:39
That doesn't work out the way you seem to think it does most of the time.
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blasteg 2020-02-23 16:55
yeah, I know sometimes I choose what I use based on what layout I'm used to
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CachoTognax 2020-03-05 04:28
(lttp) I'm guessing this is not such a wanted feature, but I'd like to be possible in the places where you can mark the item you see to mark trash items (even just a rupee symbol to mark them in general), I know you can right click to mark them as gathered, but I'm more of a completionist than a speedrunner and I'd like to be able to go back and pick up that item later even if it's useless rather than right click and forget about them.
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blasteg 2020-03-05 04:29
Not mark anything on it at all should suffice, I think
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CachoTognax 2020-03-05 04:30
Then I can't remember if I checked or not
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blasteg 2020-03-05 04:31
if you're coming back to claim it anyway does it matter
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CachoTognax 2020-03-05 04:33
fair to an extent
04:33
I could get paranoid that it has an actually usefull item and I didn't check yet, but fair yeah
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blasteg 2020-03-05 04:37
you can also put a bottle on there even if you have all 4 I think, but that's more of a workaround as well
04:38
though #pack-support might be a better place.
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CachoTognax 2020-03-05 04:39
Yeah that's a fair workaround
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fylion 2020-03-05 07:36
#customization-support could also help you get a rupee icon added to the capture menu, if that's your jam.
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Nicholas Steel 2020-03-05 09:01
If you enable "Always allow chest manipulation" than you can right-click the location to mark it as obtained in addition to stopping the Auto Tracker from re-marking it as available. (edited)
09:02
Marking it as obtained is basically the same as saying there was a junk item there (unless you have OCD and always strive for 100% collection rate). (edited)
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ReggX 2020-03-05 09:03
I know you can right click to mark them as gathered, but I'm more of a completionist than a speedrunner and I'd like to be able to go back and pick up that item later
from the original message @Nicholas Steel
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Nicholas Steel 2020-03-05 09:10
Oh, in that case Emosaru could consider adding Bomb, Arrow, Rupee, Heart Piece and Heart Containers as choices for visible locations.
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EmoSaru 2020-03-05 09:12
Hi, I’m not interested in doing that, because it just adds more things to accidentally click on for people going fast. That said, the tracker is very customizable, and you can absolutely add them locally yourself if you so choose.
👍 1
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CachoTognax 2020-03-05 10:32
Thank you, makes sense.
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Hamsda 2020-03-05 11:20
I would still love to see us being able to manipulate individual location sizes in the map_locations data. Main (and basically only) use case for me would be to make dungeons stand out more, i feel thats something that e.g. dunkas tracker for lttp does much better. I know this could lead to a lot of clutter if people were to use like 18 different sizes, but Id think that all of us pack authors know how to use it in a sensible fashion.
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EmoSaru 2020-03-05 11:38
I'm tired of fighting this fight, so I'll add this in the next version, lol (edited)
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Hamsda 2020-03-05 12:51
lol
12:51
i still dont quite understand your sentiment against it
12:51
but thank you nonetheless zsrLove
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2020-03-05 13:45
i still dont quite understand your sentiment against it
Uniform elements. (edited)
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Natalie 2020-03-05 13:48
there is one valid argument here, and that's that games like OoT cram so many item checks into physically small areas
13:48
content-aware OoT map projection when 👀
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MuffinJets 2020-03-05 14:04
That would turn OoT into Kakariko Village: Now with Dungeon DLC!
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Hamsda 2020-03-05 14:20
LUL
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blasteg 2020-03-05 15:28
after play testing with La mulana map tracker that is almost ready, I realized instead of size difference, I might prefer shape difference instead
15:28
square for item locations, triangle for entrance location
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EmoSaru 2020-03-05 15:28
Shape difference is far less likely to happen in the near future than size difference.
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blasteg 2020-03-05 15:28
mhmm
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2020-03-05 15:35
It was mentioned that adding a graphic to the location markers was also an idea.
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EmoSaru 2020-03-05 15:36
It is, but also less likely to happen in the near future than location size.
👍 2
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Hamsda 2020-03-05 16:22
i mean you can badge them already, though depending on the relative size of your locations, those can be fairly small
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fylion 2020-03-16 19:43
Any chance of giving a pack name as a command-line argument? Specifically because I'd love to have buttons for different packs on my streamdeck.
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EmoSaru 2020-03-16 20:55
odds are it would end up being pack UID, but that's possible
20:55
how important would it be to support changing the pack in a live instance that way
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WillardJBradley 2020-03-17 00:16
ooo, I'd like that specifically to switch between keysanity and non-keysanity
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2020-03-17 00:38
Ahh, switching variants within a pack.
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Gozengatta 2020-03-17 07:56
That would be super useful, great suggestion.
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fylion 2020-03-19 12:33
Live-switching would be cool too, I guess. Didn't think of that but I'd take it. And I have no qualms about it being a UID instead of name, since it's probably a graphical button on streamdeck anywyas
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Soriel 2020-03-28 00:56
Suggestions for Minish Cap randomizer Tracker; 1:normal item drops image to choose what the item that can be seen is; 2:Kinstone pieces and fusion tracker (cause I play with the vanila fusions; 3:Alternative way to get to Melari Mines and Cave of Flames: Peril Beam can be used to open the switch, which means I got items I was not able to check in the tracker.
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MuffinJets 2020-03-28 08:29
For one, I don't think Peril Beam will ever be in logic, but secondly that respective communities' discord is a better place to bring up pack-specific suggestions, this is more for the program as a whole
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merulaxr 2020-03-28 09:11
^ cubesolver will help you out over there
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cubesolver 2020-03-28 18:59
I’m working on implementing fusions, there’s just not a great way to do it
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Astralika 2020-03-29 02:27
Would probably do to have a Welcome meme giving a quick guide to searching FAQ, cuz I opened FAQ and was like "Okay I'll read the whole thing", saw how big it is, and perished. But if I got a question I'll probably in:faq [question I have]
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Nicholas Steel 2020-03-29 02:28
In Firefox Discord will intercept the Ctrl F keyboard shortcut to place focus on the Search Box in Discord with the syntax for searching only the currently viewed channel already filled in.
02:28
Image attachment
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Astralika 2020-03-29 02:29
See? That's useful information! That same shortcut also works here, so you can be viewing FAQ, hit ctrl-f, and it'll move your cursor to the search box after filling in in:#faq (edited)
02:30
Thanks for the tip, I never knew that!
🙂 1
02:31
(Point is that's more helpful than "read faq" cuz not everyone's gonna have the thought "I should search faq for my problem" if what they've been told is to "read" it.)
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Natalie 2020-03-29 02:47
in all discord implementations there is a discord search feature
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EmoSaru 2020-03-29 11:42
I am not in the position of providing the user guide for Discord. That said, I’m glad you figured out search - it’s definitely a useful tool.
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Astralika 2020-03-29 14:52
I guess my recommendation was mostly just to change the wording from "read faq" to "search faq", or even having a quick reminder at the top of faq, cuz even a simple verbage change can do wonders for the brain being tricksy with you. But faq's there either way, so it's not exactly a Hot Issue that needs direct address. Thank you again for the amazing rando tool! <3
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codemann8 2020-04-01 10:26
I have a feature request, can you add something like DisableBadgeTextRefresh boolean value to consumables and allow us to set the text and color on badges manually in Lua and not have EmoTracker clear out that text and refresh after the next change (if the boolean value is defined true)?
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Hamsda 2020-04-01 10:31
setting the AcquiredCount already works
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codemann8 2020-04-01 10:34
Not what I'm asking
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Hamsda 2020-04-01 10:41
allow us to set the text and color on badges manually in Lua and not have EmoTracker clear out that text
exactly what is possible, i did that just yesterday?
10:41
maybe im just not understanding what you are asking then (edited)
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codemann8 2020-04-01 10:41
like settings gt_crystals badge text to "?"
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EmoSaru 2020-04-01 10:42
If you are trying to do something weird
10:42
Then use a custom item
10:42
Lua custom items exist. Build one, and setself.ItemInstance.BadgeText and self.ItemInstance.BadgeTextColor
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Hamsda 2020-04-01 10:42
oh you want things besides a number
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codemann8 2020-04-01 10:42
which you CAN do, but EmoTracker clears it out on next update
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EmoSaru 2020-04-01 10:42
The consumable item doesn't do it
10:42
And it won't
10:42
So build a custom item with the exceptional behavior you want
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codemann8 2020-04-01 10:43
I swear I did this and it just cleared it out when i collected the next item
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EmoSaru 2020-04-01 10:43
You built a Lua custom item type? (edited)
10:43
Don't use a consumable
10:43
Build your own item type
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codemann8 2020-04-01 10:44
Yeah, but i'll give it another go
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Scaryolive 2020-04-12 19:17
Hi Hi. I was wondering if there could be a Door Rando keysanity update at some point for the Lttp tracker? In Door Rando, number of keydoor per dungeons are not set so sometimes you can have 3 Eastern small keys. The current keysanity tracker has limits and sometimes no small keys. Thanks!
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WillardJBradley 2020-04-12 19:36
you could probably customize your own tracker to go up to max 9 keys
☝️ 1
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2020-04-12 19:39
Door Rando is still in development and will have its own in-game trackers. Still on the drawing board about whether or not the counters will count up or down.
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Scaryolive 2020-04-12 20:00
I'll check it out to customize it then. My previous attempt with a Jason file didn't end well tho scaryoLul
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StormRider 2020-04-13 17:58
When loading packs from a zip file, could the program also see if there is a single top-level directory inside the zip and look just inside that for the manifest?
17:59
Because it would make life a hell of a lot easier if I could just tell someone "grab branch zip from GitHub to test"
18:00
Hell, I could get rid of this dumb workflow for releasing packs, too.
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ReggX 2020-04-13 18:13
+1, that would get rid of the same recurring issue. People forget that they are not allowed to zip a folder, but the contents of a folder and it breaks the package management and the user has no idea why
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EmoSaru 2020-04-13 20:50
I'm pretty disinclined to change this behavior.
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EmoSaru 2020-04-13 21:07
I’ll think about whether there are any knock on benefits to doing it though, which may shift the balance on it.
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Nicholas Steel 2020-04-17 03:23
Would it be possible for the Auto Tracker to trigger a once-off change to the tracker view as you travel between worlds/games (light world/dark world/super metroid)? (edited)
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Dorkmaster Flek 2020-04-17 05:40
Currently the Lua scripting cannot change the active map (and I believe it can't tell what the currently active map view even is, but I'm not 100% sure on that). If that were to change, it would be possible however. (edited)
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EmoSaru 2020-04-17 10:13
As flex alluded to, Lua scripts cannot currently modify the UI, so this is not currently possible.
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LonelyLeprechaun 2020-04-20 23:23
Would it be possible to have things in different windows? Map tracker in one, item tracker in another, etc.? That way they could all be sized and placed independently.
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EmoSaru 2020-04-20 23:23
No.
23:23
Not currently, and I have no intention of doing that at this time.
23:23
While some things may get support added for multiple windows, it will not be generic, and will require pack developer intervention.
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Nicholas Steel 2020-04-26 00:24
Group games from the same series together in the Package Manager UI. So Metroid + Zelda Randomizer, Super Metroid + ALttP Randomizer and Super Metroid Randomizer are all adjacent to each other for example (maybe put the combo inbetween ALttP and Super Metroid packages). (edited)
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2020-04-26 00:26
Alternatively, a text list of the games that are in the Package Manager for quick scrolling to that section.
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EmoSaru 2020-04-26 01:03
I think you'll find that different communities have differing opinions on what the "main game" for those is.
☝️ 1
01:03
Beyond that, there is text search.
👍 1
01:03
Click at the top and start typing.
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MuffinJets 2020-05-09 09:45
Would it be possible to warn/prevent a user from updating their pack if they have user overrides active? For example, have a popup that says, "You have a user override for this package. Updating the package with the override may break the override and cause the package to malfunction. [Clear Override and Update] [Update Without Clearing Override] [Cancel] " (edited)
👍 2
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2020-05-09 09:46
And the advanced nerds can still know “move override, update, see what’s busted.”
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MuffinJets 2020-05-09 09:46
^
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2020-05-09 09:49
Gives the less-skilled user an explanation and a chance to back out.
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Pink Switch 2020-05-10 21:59
add scroll bar pls
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EmoSaru 2020-05-10 22:41
Pack developers can already add scrolling support. Check the JSON schemas in #customization-support before asking about features.
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apathyduck 2020-05-10 22:54
Image attachment
22:54
done
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deserteagle417 2020-05-10 23:15
lol
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Pink Switch 2020-05-10 23:20
im not sure i understand
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F-Lambda 2020-05-14 14:24
Two user-side suggestions, both relating to package management. * Add uninstall package button. * Date stamps for last package release (version number display would be good in addition to this, but I think dates is higher priority). (edited)
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Sal the Dragon 2020-05-14 14:38
To uninstall a package you just go into your documents to the emotracker folder and delete the zip file for the pack and restart the tracker.
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2020-05-14 14:48
@F-Lambda Emo has stated that she’s not interested in including any functions to delete from file system. Only add and overwrite.
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EmoSaru 2020-05-14 15:20
I've said that in general, I take the decision to add those types of things seriously. There's always a cost/benefit thing to those types of additions, so the suggestion is welcome regardless.
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F-Lambda 2020-05-14 15:28
Alright, fair enough. Since that's not an option, perhaps a shortcut to open the install directory would work instead? The install process for adding packages is fairly seamless, so some users might not realize where it's located (I myself found it on accident in the faq in a section that wasn't even talking about uninstalling).
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EmoSaru 2020-05-14 15:29
Streamlining this in some way is something that will be looked into.
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l100raphs 2020-05-20 00:00
some items in the settings menu can have their state saved when the program is closed and then opened (e.g.always on top, voice control, pin locations on item capture, unpin locations when cleared), but some don't save (show all locations, ignore all logic, always allow chest manipulation, etc.). my suggestion is to make these other options save-able
👍🏼 3
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Pound 2020-05-22 06:21
Is there a place to check the post game stats, other than the short pop-up window? If not, it would be awesome to save the data somewhere. Awesome tracker, thanks for everything you do!
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MuffinJets 2020-05-22 10:45
@Pound If you're talking about ALttPR, the answer is no. I suppose if you really wanted to, you could save the tracker progress (gear icon -> File -> Save As...) and come back to it to see what items you did and didn't have later
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EmoSaru 2020-05-22 11:25
There is another place to check the post game stats, which is the end of the credits in the game.
11:26
In all seriousness, a way to view previous notifications is on my radar, but low priority. (edited)
👍 1
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BFGGaming 2020-05-22 11:31
I really wish that pop-up didn't just automatically disappear. It'd be nice if it had a close button, or just stayed up until you reset the tracker. The first time I saw it, I thought it was a really cool addition.
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JRJathome 2020-05-22 18:01
For ALttPR, you can upload your .srm file to the #sahasrahbot channel on the rando discord with the command $alttprstats and it'll list all the post game stats.
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Pound 2020-05-22 20:31
Thanks jrj. I will give it a try. I am trying to build a dataset of my play and hate when I miss things.
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NSGJesse 2020-05-26 15:51
Is there a chance we can get a Hollow Knight tracker with all the items/charms? I see the HK one right now and it looks great but it only has a few charms. I am guessing these are somehow important to track for randomizers? It would be cool to just have a full list one though.
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Hamsda 2020-05-26 16:52
i am working on one, but real life is a little hectic atm
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TheDarkArgo 2020-06-05 12:54
I was wondering, is it possible there is a Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night tracker in the works?
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EmoSaru 2020-06-05 13:35
This is addressed in #faq
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zig 2020-06-05 19:32
Hey, I modified the lttp/snes9x connector.lua to add a tcp:settimeout(0.01) after tcp = socket.tcp() - it lets the socket connect/reconnect without hanging the whole emulator if the connection fails. Not sure if this is something already handled in a future release, but might be worth incorporating.
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zig 2020-06-05 19:44
Disclaimer: only tested it on my machine 🙂
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Nicholas Steel 2020-06-05 20:54
Brief testing confirms the result. (edited)
20:58
I got items from Link's House, Uncle+Chest and Sanctuary and the tracker tracked everything without issues after making the change... and Snes9x/whole OS doesn't suffer massive CPU utilization spikes every connection attempt if you attempt to run the LUA script without Emotracker being set up. (edited)
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zig 2020-06-06 15:11
FWIW I'm also suspicious of the while loop inside of receive()
15:13
it probably shouldn't be unbounded, though I don't know under what conditions it would break - at the very least spreading on the data over a few frames would help prevent spikes
15:13
but lower priority than the first issue 🙂
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EmoSaru 2020-06-06 15:14
Folks, just FYI I'm not the sole owner of that code. I'll talk to other folks about and see what we might do, but there are potentially other changes happening in the future, and TBH, given that the root issue arguably manifests itself due to user error, I'm not going to rush something out for any of this.
15:14
The unbounded while loop is absolutely necessary in order to support atomic operation groups.
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zig 2020-06-06 15:14
I'm not asking for anything to be rushed
15:15
and not saying you are, but I don't know of other proper channels of communication
15:15
Ok, I wasn't aware that there were atomic operations, that's fine
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EmoSaru 2020-06-06 15:15
There aren't any, I'm responding now to let you know that there's not much to be gained from continuing to investigate and report.
15:16
If you have local fixes that's great, and I will look into it.
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zig 2020-06-06 15:16
Just that settimeout thing
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EmoSaru 2020-06-06 15:16
Understood.
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ReggX 2020-06-07 12:27
Question: Is it possible to make the "map", "x" and "y" properties of map_locations dynamic like the "$lua_function" of access_rules works? For my entrance rando pack, the static method with using restrict_visibility_rules to only display the relevant location results in over 12000 visibility_rules and (unsurprisingly) massive slowdowns and memory leaks.
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EmoSaru 2020-06-07 13:57
not currently
13:57
also please explain in #customization-support what in the actual fuck you are doing with over 12000 visibility rules and why I should care enough to fix it
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Lunar Flare 2020-06-22 04:05
Add another color (maybe purple?) for "you can check some things here, and you can clear this area with known glitches, but not within logic." (Basically a combination of orange and yellow. Currently, yellow overrides orange, so IDK if I can make any checks at all in a yellow location or if everything needs logic breaks.) (edited)
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Pink Switch 2020-06-22 06:59
Doesn't orange override yellow though...?
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MuffinJets 2020-06-22 08:18
If I remember correctly Red + Yellow = Orange Yellow + Green = Yellow Blue + Red/Green = Orange
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ReggX 2020-06-22 08:23
Red = all checks not in logic Orange = at least one check not in logic Yellow = At least one check is available through sequence breaks, the rest is in logic Green = All checks are in logic Blue = all checks inspectable. For capture items, the blue color will give way to the rest after an item has been selected in the capture window. The higher ones on the list take precedence. (edited)
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Dual [CDT UTC-5] (TWWR) 2020-06-22 22:50
I think Blue is above green because you cannot access a visual check
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Pink Switch 2020-06-22 22:52
oh muffin was listing tracker priority not color mixing
22:52
whoops
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EmoSaru 2020-06-22 23:31
I'll consider adding a new color at some point, but it's low priority.
➕ 1
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Dual [CDT UTC-5] (TWWR) 2020-06-26 13:48
It would be interesting if you added like sliced tiles. Like, the player can do everything here "top left green" but they will need to do a trick to do at least one of the checks "bottom right yellow".
13:50
But in terms of a new color, I don't know what function it could serve. I feel like the current set covers everything that I can think to use. 0. You can't see it. 1. You can see it. 2. You can get it but there's a trick. 3. You can get some of it. 4. You can get all of it. 5. You have gotten all of it.
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EmoSaru 2020-06-26 13:52
To me, the most interesting new color to add is the "you can potentially get all the items here in logic, but it's not guaranteed".
13:53
The overlap between that and sequence-break in packs is the number one confusing bit.
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Dual [CDT UTC-5] (TWWR) 2020-06-26 13:53
So like split path key locked?
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EmoSaru 2020-06-26 13:53
Or item/key-layout dependent things. For example, LTTPR's desert palace depending on what's on the torch.
13:53
Most LTTP dungeons, tbf.
13:54
Sequence break is currently overloaded, so one of the two meanings can be disambiguated.
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Dual [CDT UTC-5] (TWWR) 2020-06-26 14:42
Something that would be nice is adding custom alt-code support for checks and locations.
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EmoSaru 2020-06-26 14:43
Can you explain what you mean?
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Dual [CDT UTC-5] (TWWR) 2020-06-26 14:48
So as I hover the cursor over Earth Temple on my map, I see the alt-code I embedded in that location. Something like "To complete Earth Temple, you need: power bracelets, hammer, mirror shield, Command Melody, Earth God's Lyric, fire arrows, and leaf." Or I could make it like "For sequence breaks in the Earth Temple, go to https://www.zeldaspeedruns.com/tww/dungeons/earth-temple". I understand that EmoTracker's major focus is players who are much more familiar with the game and randomizer. But it would nice to enable a small bit of use as an educational tool. (edited)
14:50
I think it would make more sense as a thing on checks, to describe either location, how to make it appear, or requirements to access.
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EmoSaru 2020-06-26 14:57
Custom tool tips are not a bad idea, but published pack authors can already provide a link to online pack documentation which will open when pressing F1 if setup properly. If they choose to include gameplay information that’s up to them.
14:58
That said, the tracker is already a good teaching tool when used in map enabled packs, as it generally prompts new players to ask how they can do things, which is a task much better served by more substantial resources than tool tips.
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Nicholas Steel 2020-06-27 04:52
Another example was the back of Hyrule Castle Escape. The castle would appear as Yellow even if you had a weapon and Power Gloves with neither the Fire Rod nor the Lamp. Falling in to the lit back-end of the Escape with this configuration isn't a sequence break but the tracker displays it as such due to the multiple ways to get there and the treatment of Dark Room Navigation being a sequence break. Neither yellow nor orange is suitable for this scenario. (edited)
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Rokon 2020-07-02 00:04
for the devs of the OOT and MM trackers: separate maps for dungeons, like the MC tracker does? Navigating the pins of dungeons just doesn't feel right because there are so many chests.
00:06
they don't fit on my screen
00:08
DarkenedSky's OOT tracker is nice but it just has that problem more
00:09
but at least you can see the pins which would be nice if i were able to play OOT on a separate screen
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Hamsda 2020-07-02 02:06
Been on my plan for a while, but I never found a satisfying way to visualize it Might be working on it in the next few weeks but I can't promise anything.
02:07
Also stuff like that should probably go into #pack-support
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Nicholas Steel 2020-07-02 03:41
#suggestions is for the tracker program it self, not the individual packages for it. Emosaru, consider updating the Keyboard Shortcut list in #welcome to be consistent with the list in #faq (or make the statement in #welcome read less like a definitive statement or just get rid of it from Welcome) (edited)
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Pink Switch 2020-07-18 20:43
I feel like if you badge a check you shouldn't have to use the badged item code specifically to have the badge actually work, or at least the fact this needs to be done should be clearer because I've seen a bunch of people (myself included) get stuck wondering why badges arent working
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EmoSaru 2020-07-18 21:53
You place items on layouts using codes the item you're placing provides. The base item provides its code(s), the badge provides its code(s). There are entirely valid (and actively used) use cases for being able to specifically refer to one or the other. This will not be changing. (edited)
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codemann8 2020-07-26 09:19
I'd also like to second a vote towards improving the performance and memory leaks around visibility rules. Altho I don't have 12000 rules like the last guy, but I have a couple hundred and every click in the tracker takes a second or so to do its work. It seems like every action/click you do, it is recalculating these rules. Instead, on init, can you set up a subscriber pattern on all the items/objects that are referenced in the rules and only perform the rules check when those specific items change? I can also provide a copy of the zip to show you the slowdown. (edited)
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EmoSaru 2020-07-26 13:47
I will look into it, but it’s a large change and this is not a common use pattern. Sending the zip will help. (edited)
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EmoSaru 2020-07-26 18:35
Got it. Please DM those things in the future.
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codemann8 2020-07-26 18:35
ok np
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Ezzelin 2020-07-27 20:50
Hello! Would it be possible to add an auto-save feature? It would be great if Emotracker automatically saved whenever anything changed, whether manually or autotracked, to prevent accidental data loss.
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EmoSaru 2020-07-27 21:51
I do not intend to add an auto-save feature at this time.
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codemann8 2020-08-01 20:18
I heard a suggestion from another person and I kinda agree: can there be different options for pinned location order? Currently it behaves like a Stack (new pins get added to the top), but i know many people who would want a Queue/List (new pins added to the bottom), perhaps an option you can set in application_settings.json, or perhaps an option that can be set differently per pack somehow
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EmoSaru 2020-08-01 20:21
I'll add this. This feels more like a user defined setting rather than a pack defined setting, but I'm open to arguments otherwise.
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codemann8 2020-08-01 20:22
I tend to agree with that as well
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Hamsda 2020-08-01 22:50
Yeah sounds more like user preference.
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krelbel 2020-08-15 22:56
Just tried out autotracking today for the first time, worked mostly great, except when I rolled a door rando seed and the tracker assumed door rando's half-mirror item was the real mirror (and adjusted map logic accordingly), and even after disabling the mirror it would auto-reenable again after every item pickup. I understand door rando's not officially supported yet, but either the ability to recognize the half-mirror or the ability to override mirror autotracking would be greatly appreciated 👍
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EmoSaru 2020-08-15 23:32
Anybody can export an override and edit things. I don't plan on making changes specific to door rando until it's merged into the main site.
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krelbel 2020-08-15 23:35
Understandable, I'll try to figure out how to override it in that case. Thanks for responding 🙂
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Spleebie 2020-08-16 08:05
@krelbel Fouton fixed that in pughud, I just copied his fix in an override
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MuffinJets 2020-08-16 16:41
Hey, just wanted to thank you for considering that suggestion I made, I had forgotten I even had that override lol
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EmoSaru 2020-08-16 16:46
Thank @apathyduck - he implemented it. 👍
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MuffinJets 2020-08-16 16:50
Dope, thanks!
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fartsplosion 2020-08-16 20:54
I have a bad memory after I play a seed. Would it be possible for auto tracking to have the ability to create a reverse spoiler log listing items you've found and the locations you found them? A restriction to only being available after finishing a seed seems reasonable since auto tracking is a touchy subject, but isn't necessary. (edited)
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EmoSaru 2020-08-16 20:55
That’s not something I will be pursuing. (edited)
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fartsplosion 2020-08-16 20:56
Wow fast response. EmoTracker is super rad and thanks for all the work you've done!
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krelbel 2020-08-17 16:58
That's why I like streaming all my runs; I'll frequently go back and rewatch parts to refresh my memory on what happened. (I guess you could do the same thing without streaming just with local recordings.)
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JohnBono 2020-08-19 17:12
Tried my first auto-tracking seed in a multiworld with one partner last night. It broke kinda early, but that's more likely how the server was sending data, considering it was only happening with items sent from my partner's world and locations that had items sent to their world, and it was working fully at first.
17:14
Even given the trouble it was a very pleasant experience. Not having to have the cognitive load of making sure I mark things definitely outweighed the fact that I wouldn't remember where I'd already checked quite as clearly; though I remembered where I wanted to go better.
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krelbel 2020-08-19 17:14
i've been using emotracker autotracking with multiworlds over the last few days with no issues, more details would probably be helpful in diagnosing the issue
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JohnBono 2020-08-19 17:16
Amarith thought it was some firewall issues. We were using Berserker's Berserker multiworld featuring Berserker if that makes a difference. I chaulk it up to needing to make sure settings were correct that we just didn't want to invest time into. I'll look more into it if I ever want to solve it.
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krelbel 2020-08-19 17:17
web hosted or self hosted?
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JohnBono 2020-08-19 17:23
uhhhhh
17:24
I'll DM you if I find out. I actually came to pitch features. No idea how feasible they'd be.
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krelbel 2020-08-19 17:28
ah, I was wondering why this was in the #suggestions channel 🙂
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JohnBono 2020-08-19 18:30
Okay, so I don't know jack-all about lua scripts, but ultimately I'd like to see tracker sharing; where a friend or restreamer could have access to your tracker. The main purpose would be so a restreamer can have access to the auto-tracker to eliminate most of the Tracker's labor, accuracy is improved, and the restream crew as a whole has access to some pretty cool stuff. This would make it way easier for the tracker (or comms if the controls could be done remotely as well) can flash the map with cleared and accessible chests on screen to give a visual to the object in commentary. For example, "Runner's play into pendant TT here makes a lot of sense, since that's four of their remaining six logical checks" [map pops onto stream]. Comms themselves could have access to the tracker so their speculation is better informed. Additionally, if it were possible to see the history of where and when items were collected on the comms' end, then they could even remind the audience of what's in and out of logic. Obviously all of this would be opt-in for restreams, since not everyone even wants to run a lot of this software, but I think it has the ability to make crew way better informed and efficient. (edited)
☝️ 1
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EmoSaru 2020-08-19 19:40
I spent a lot of time thinking about how to do this. There’s infrastructure in place in the app for it. Ultimately, I hate to break it to you, but the desire just isn’t there from the people who would need to want it to justify the effort.
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Ezzelin 2020-08-19 20:14
You might be able to use something like Parsec to share your tracker.
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Nicholas Steel 2020-08-19 21:02
That'd certainly work, it lets you give people control of your keyboard/mouse courser/gamepads while streaming video of a program/desktop to them. (edited)
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JohnBono 2020-08-20 08:12
Cool and thanks. Hope there's enough demand for it some day, as it's something I would really like to see as a spectator and comms.
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EmoSaru 2020-08-20 09:04
You and me both. There’s a lot of information, especially with autotracker, that could be made available to commentary.
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Darkened5ky 2020-08-20 12:39
That does sound pretty cool
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codemann8 2020-08-20 14:56
I have a couple requests, I don't mean to spam them all at once to overwhelm you. But these have been things I've been thinking on for awhile. 1) Boolean option added to Section class (or perhaps Location) that allows Chests to display the current amount of chests collected (vs the remaining number) and left click increments the number. Where this would be useful is crossed door rando where the total number of chests is unknown from the onset. I've been doing something that sets the ChestCount to 99 and AvailableChestCount to 0, which "works" but then I have to update the icon images manually every update and users have to right-click to increment the count. I know this is something that can be done thru a custom LuaItem, but this seems like a feature that would be better handled natively instead. 2) Container layout objects seem to grow/shrink as you resize the window, which is great, however, it seems to only confine its bounds to top/bottom in horzontal view and left/right in vertical view (or vice versa, it's been a bit since I've tested this), but not all top/bottom/left/right bounds like the map objects do. Can this be changed to be bound by all 4 edges? There is something really cool I'd like to implement, but is kinda hindered by this limitation. It's either a problem with container objects or item objects, or possibly both. (edited)
14:56
3) It'd be nice if there was a way we could display some kind of small prompt/message to users to inform or warm them regarding various things if they click something. 4) I know it's been brought up before, but it'd be nice to have capturable items (dotted square) in the tracker portion of a layout. In the past, I believe this was something you said you might consider, was just tapping your shoulder on the idea. 5) Another previously brought up thing, being able to modify layouts on the fly. Of course, there is some larger framework changes that would be required to make this possible, to modify a specific portion of a layout, no doubt. However, I was wondering if, as pack makers, we could define a number of pre-defined layouts in JSON and then in Lua be able to Tracker:switchLayout("alternateHorizLayout", "alternateVerticalLayout") and similarly for switching Broadcast view Tracker:switchBroadcast("alternateBroadcast"). A better short-term solution also, would be to be able override defined layouts with another defined layout and then be able to "refresh" the tracker or broadcast layout, so that any layouts referenced in both can be redrawn. I can provide further explanation if this is confusing and can provide some use cases where it would be handy.
✅ 1
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EmoSaru 2020-08-20 15:30
1) seems reasonable, I’ll look into it. 2) I’ll have to look into this. A simple/isolated example pack to reproduce the issue clearly would help if you can send me one 3) are the existing markdown notifications from Lua insufficient for this? Let me know what else you’re looking for beyond that 4) this is definitely on my radar for the next release 5) this is a big one, but something I will look into, as dynamic layout changes via Lua is an area I’d like to attack broadly. (edited)
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codemann8 2020-08-20 15:37
Ok, awesome. I'll get back to you on an example for #2, I shelved a portion of changes awhile back so I'll have to merge them into what I have currently. And let me explore the markdown notification feature for #3.
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codemann8 2020-08-20 15:55
Ok, Markdown Notification will suffice for #3, however, the text is a bit on the small side, it'd be nice to have an option to specify a bigger font size if possible.
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EmoSaru 2020-08-20 15:56
I’ll look into some sizing options. In the meantime, you can play around with the formatting for headings (edited)
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Itstoearly 2020-08-28 04:24
I noticed that without hookshot, EmoTracker says Ice Palace is glitches required to get everything... pretty sure you can get everything so long as you have fire rod/bombos, cane of samaria, glove 2, hammer, and flippers (and bombs)
04:25
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04:25
without using bomb jumping
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WillardJBradley 2020-08-28 05:50
iirc there are certain key placements in the dungeon that make hookshot required logically
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Itstoearly 2020-08-28 05:59
Oh, I'll have to look into that, thanks
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SpatialParanoia(SPAY_SHUL) 2020-08-28 06:50
There are a few OOT locations not on the map. So far I've found the gravestone at lake hylia, the 2 scrubs (not under the bridge) in lost woods, and the hole under the boulder left of the market in hyrule field. Are those gonna be added?
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WillardJBradley 2020-08-28 06:56
is there a toggle for scrubsanity with that tracker?
06:56
otherwise those scrubs don't have a randomized item
06:59
hole under the boulder left of market in hyrule field (assuming you're facing the castle) appears once you mark bombs or bomchus
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Hamsda 2020-08-28 07:15
yeah those are definitely all in my tracker for well over a year 🙂
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